More YouTube Trombonists

ttf_janettem · Post by **ttf_janettem** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:36 pm

Quote from: josh roseman on Nov 13, 2008, 04:57PMGary's voice in full bloom is on the outer edge of what's physically possible on the instrument.
more, it's on the edge of what's acoustically possible in a room. He melts microphones, they wither in shame and forget what they were doing when he plays.

If you hear him in a room, if you get the chance to play with him as many of us have- you'll know you're dealing with a heavyweight champion.
Not just his sound, facility and execution- but the conceptual strength and originality of his whole presentation & the spirit behind it. He's coming out of everyone from Kid Ory, Buster Cooper, Bill Hariss and (especially) Rosewell- but he's a true innovator. He has a way of influencing any musician he comes in contact with by sheer force of gravity- you can actually watch section players, drummers, saxophonists get assimilated into "the borg" when he's around.

In truth, he was directly responsible for my switch to a .547 as a kid- after him, there's very little else that interests me about smaller bore instruments.

The ideas he presents onstage rubs off on everyone in the band and those who are listening to him in the audience.

That's sort of what I would like to present once I start playing on a more serious level.

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:39 pm

QuoteGary Valente:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6s0cjSUDJE
Whilst I'm engaged picking flaming arrows out of my arse, are you sure, absolutely certain, that we are both talking about the guy on the youtube video above?? If so, and he commands the adoration I see in the posts preceding then I'm not a fogy, I must be a bumpkin. Funny, I never though so and neither do the folks I play with. I always thought I was kinda hip. Wow, next level self-delusion is the only answer.

Like the rube said, "I don't know much about art but I know what I like." Maybe it's the recording, the acoustics of the venue, the position of the mic... or all of them. Common guys, we're musicians and trombone players, we can't be that far apart.

With all respect to Mr. Valente,
RD

ttf_WaltTrombone · Post by **ttf_WaltTrombone** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:09 pm

Gary gets his message across using his own vocabulary. I find it no less effective than, say Frank Rosolino's message. Just a different vocabulary. Kinda like comparing a black preacher in Harlem with Billy Graham. Both get their message across differently, but, in their own way, no less effectively.

It's a style from out of the street, gritty, not so refined to the ear.

Krumhorn or shawm playing a wild estampie, as opposed to the Goldberg Variations. Both will move you, if you let them. Just don't expect the same experience from both.

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:36 pm

Try to imagine another trombonist playing here, instead of Gary. What do you hear? Does it carry over the band or does the soloist need a mic? Is the mic'd sound still effective?

For this solo, in this band, on this chart, written by that woman, I want to hear Gary. No matter what.

When I was a teenager and he was still in the Boston area, I got to see Gary live many times. I think he was probably the first player who I ever recognized as having his OWN sound. I was amazed at the amount of sound that came out of that tiny Silvertone 2B. Believe me, the video doesn't capture half of it.....

.....and I'm NOT kidding.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:10 am

Gary's way/sound/comcept is not the onliest way (like Dicky Wells put it) but his onliest way - by choice and force of nature. Like Bill Harris, Jimmy Knepper, Dicky hisself, Roswell Rudd, Ray Anderson, Willie Dennis, Jack Teagarden, Kid Ory, Tricky Sam, Vic Dickenson . . . . Lawrence Brown . . . . then there's all the nincompoops with no sound, no articulation, no personality . . . and there's a lot of them out there these days with fine educations and scholastic know-how . . . . that pollute the clear waters of originality and artistry . . . to put it bluntly
erling

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:04 am

Quote then there's all the nincompoops with no sound, no articulation, no personality . . . and there's a lot of them out there these days with fine educations and scholastic know-how . . . . that pollute the clear waters of originality and artistry .
Erling, a true and savant observation. Thank you. I see many "cookie cutter" jazz students being chugged out from the music colleges with great theory knowledge, they can play all the jazz scales in doodle tongue, they can pick out a super F any old time, they can play real fast and real high and they read perfectly. But, on the bandstand, that's all they got. There's often no soul, no ideas of their own, just ghastly scales and chord arpeggios done in doodle 32nds at bebop tempo. They make the changes but so can a midi. This should be art, and each artist should have his own voice, distinct, unique and, most important, recognizable. Please don't construe my earlier comments to mean that I don't appreciate Gary's individualism, his art. It's just that the sound in my head, my voice, is very different.

Best,
RD

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:15 am

Speaking of high F's, here's Billy Bargetzi's response to my 1001 High F's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2zDnEpAms4

HAHAHA!...

Meanwhile I'll cease practicing my scales and doodle-tonguing since I done learned it in college. Does it count as "personality" if I consistently do it out of tune, out of context and in an inappropriate fashion? hahaha...

Your resident nincompoop just trying to get the job done,

Wes Funderburk
www.funderbone.com

(sarcasm included)

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 am

There is another brouhaha currently going on in the pedagogy section called Re: High Range Pedagogy. (http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=42893.msg591297;boardseen#new)

Both are really only about one thing, but it is hard to name that one thing.

I'll give it a try, though. A number of tries.

Republicans and Democrats.

Conservatives and liberals.

The old and the new.

The safe and the risky.

And, to blow all of the above away...the essential falsehood of two-dimensional thought.

Either/or does not cut it here. Any good boxer, martial artist or baseball player understands this on a physical level.

Y'got yer boxers, y'got yer punchers and y'got yer boxer/punchers. It is the third dimension that cops the ultimate prize.

The great ones?

I do not care if it is Muhammad Ali, J. J. Johnson, Gary Valente, Hank Aaron, Urbie Green, Carmine Basilio, Larry Bird, Tiger Woods or Jascha Heifetz...they play with power AND finesse.

Now I know for a continuing fact that when Gary wishes to do so, he can blend inside of a high-level mainstream ensemble. He will never win the Bill Watrous or Wayne Andre Finesse Derbies, but he is a good, mainstream musician. In a power band like the Chico O'Farrill band, he is the best lead player imaginable because:

1-He is incredibly consistent.

2-He is incredibly powerful when that talent is required.

3-His time and pitch are among the best that I have ever heard from any player on any instrument.

But those talents are not much in evidence on the video in question.

However...LISTEN!!!

Forget about the so-called music for a minute, and just listen to the longer notes he produces.

LISTEN!!!

Consciously.

What is he doing?

What is he really doing, on a note-by-note basis.

So many of them start at some superhuman level of sound...that's the first thing that you notice...but then they all come down into this beautiful, sweet-yet-powerful timbre. He doesn't just blast at you. First he gets your attention (A necessity that has increased in a geometrical progression as modern culture has inched into Over-Stimulus World.), and then he backs off.

Some of us have noted that his sound is essentially unrecordable. That is why. Especially with newer automated recording systems, (but also with older, non-automated recording engineers) the frequency responses are limited in order to stop overload. Allow them enough room to capture his attacks and the lower end of his sound spectrum disappears. It's like trying to record a singer who attacks the notes like Screamin' Jay Hawkins and then immediately metamorphoses into Billy Eckstine or Frank Sinatra.

I have been Gary's friend and colleague for well over a decade, and I am here to tell you that if he has any "faults" at all, they have to do with his absolute inability to tell anything but the truth for any length of time. He simply cannot sustain a lie. Not musically and not personally either.

We should all have that problem.

Peace.

S.

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:57 am

This proves the axiom: As Frank Zappa said, "Never presume to criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Because then you're a mile away, and you've got his shoes."

RD

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:56 am

quote/
It's just that the sound in my head, my voice, is very different/unquote
And that is as it should be.

ttf_janettem · Post by **ttf_janettem** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:05 am

He is creating.

Period.

ttf_ctingle · Post by **ttf_ctingle** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:12 pm

Hey all,

I've been away from forum life for a bit....seemed to lack much of interest to me when I checked in, until....

I happen to be reading this discussion of Gary Valente while I'm on a two week run of the touring show, Color Purple (sometimes I really love my job!!). I think it's safe to say Gary's "voice" as shown here is as close to a gospel preacher on trombone that I've ever heard, be it through sucky laptop speakers on youtube or live on Sunday nights w Chico O'Farrell's band. Comparing Gary, especially this clip, to other heroes like Fontana, JJ....seems pointless to me, even if they happen to be playing the same piece of metal to communicate. Their framework, their context, their desired result can't be much more different.

Could Gary stand up and sound like JJ or Fontana on a bebop tune or standard? I don't know, as I've never heard him in that context.

Could JJ or Fontana or ?? stand up and sound like Gary in this Carla/Gospel bag? I'm extremely doubtful, though it has me wondering and smiling....it's too easy to dismiss on the basis of norms, standards of performance....the bottom line is that Gary is communicating in a HUGE way to his audience, his band mates, and to his fearless leader, Carla Bley.

Thanks for an interesting topic and discussion on what has seemingly become a stale and bone-geeky forum, at least to these eyes and ears.

Cheers,

PS I think it might be interesting for any doubters out there to try to "transcribe" what Gary's doing in this clip....put your mind's ear into the center of that stage next to Gary and have a swing at it.

Quote from: josh roseman on Nov 13, 2008, 04:57PMGary's voice in full bloom is on the outer edge of what's physically possible on the instrument.
more, it's on the edge of what's acoustically possible in a room. He melts microphones, they wither in shame and forget what they were doing when he plays.

If you hear him in a room, if you get the chance to play with him as many of us have- you'll know you're dealing with a heavyweight champion.
Not just his sound, facility and execution- but the conceptual strength and originality of his whole presentation & the spirit behind it. He's coming out of everyone from Kid Ory, Buster Cooper, Bill Hariss and (especially) Rosewell- but he's a true innovator. He has a way of influencing any musician he comes in contact with by sheer force of gravity- you can actually watch section players, drummers, saxophonists get assimilated into "the borg" when he's around.

In truth, he was directly responsible for my switch to a .547 as a kid- after him, there's very little else that interests me about smaller bore instruments.

ttf_zemry · Post by **ttf_zemry** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:50 am

Valente's solo works for me.......very well done. I love the style!

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:29 am

Bravo, you are all generous and kind people. But, as for Mr. Valente's sound, I don't like it. I'm sure a musician of his calibre and strength can play with a pleasing sound. I'm therefore pretty sure that what I'm hearing is a choice. Let's just say that it's a choice with which I can't agree. But I think even Kid Ory would. If I ever heard a recording of myself sounding like that, I'd be a'makin' some changes, yeah boy, ya'betcha.
Best Regards,
Rob "Stuck in the '50s" Dorsey

ttf_Alex Ashbourne · Post by **ttf_Alex Ashbourne** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:32 pm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt5xN0xJVXs&feature=related

here is a killin video of Slide, sorry if it was already posted

ttf_JP · Post by **ttf_JP** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:09 pm

Mr Valente, an Italian-American (I assume) pumps out a lot of soul music (close your eyes, he screams the black pride of almost 30 years ago).

Sometimes it is not about "tonequality", it is about Music. That indefinable connection of sound/rhythm/voice/identity that smacks you upside the head and says, "Listen to this and stop your judgemental observations. Just listen and feel."

I think this is solid, great music. With a capital M.

ttf_josh roseman · Post by **ttf_josh roseman** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:19 am

Quote from: Alex Ashbourne on Nov 17, 2008, 06:32PM http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt5xN0xJVXs&feature=related

here is a killin video of Slide, sorry if it was already posted

Yep, unreal. what a beautiful musician.

ttf_Malec Heermans · Post by **ttf_Malec Heermans** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:30 pm

Quote from: josh roseman on Nov 18, 2008, 07:19AMYep, unreal. what a beautiful musician.

I love the part where Dizzy cues the stop time. Slide gets this sort of vibe of resolve and complete peace. And then the band comes back in and he's just sailing. Incredible.

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:11 pm

Now we are in an area where I can agree, most totally.

Slide's doodle licks up high are fireworks yet tasty. Dizzy's reaction is priceless. And, he does this on what appears to be a King 4B and a big'ol mouthpiece, n'est-ce pas?

Slide rocks,
RD

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:25 pm

QuoteRob "Stuck in the '50s" Dorsey

Hmmmm...Buddy Morrow, the only trombone player that I can think of that might've been able to match Valente in terms of power and vibe on the trombone was in full bloom in the 50's. I'd argue you can hardly get more 50's that Buddy!

I was fortunate enough to have heard Buddy on the bandstand before the the cancer. He was still in his 70's and let me tell you: soul, finesse, and when he wanted it: POWER! I would be surprised if any of the many wonderful recordings out there really captured his sound. As great as they are, none of them have mentioned what remains in my mind's ear.

Uncle Dorsey thought he was pretty spiffy too.

-Ben

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:14 pm

Quote from: Rob Dorsey on Nov 19, 2008, 05:11PMNow we are in an area where I can agree, most totally.

Slide's doodle licks up high are fireworks yet tasty. Dizzy's reaction is priceless. And, he does this on what appears to be a King 4B and a big'ol mouthpiece, n'est-ce pas?

Slide rocks,
RD

Even after a stroke, Slide is playing bigger equipment than in that vid. He also has a beautifully lush, dark sound in his head that inspires argument from many. I am also stuck with the large bore sound in my mind's ear and have run into considerable resistance from those that aspire to a more compact sound.

Perhaps we know more about where your ears lay, Rob. But, I love both Slide and Gary for their personally identifiable sounds.

...full disclosure....I love Slide. He was my musical mentor before we ever met and has been an incredible influence on me both musically and personally. I have also had the extreme privelege (thanks, sam) to sit in the section with Gary Valente and experience the power and finesse that he can bring to the bandstand.

peace,

DG

ttf_Rob Dorsey · Post by **ttf_Rob Dorsey** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:53 pm

Yeah, you nailed me. My sound paradigm is '50s JJ, the 3B years. Mellow, tasty, so smooth that on fast runs you would swear he had valves. That's my model. He brightened up a bit on the Yamaha with the small M21 and to a dedicated disciple like me it was, well, a bit of a loss.

Of course, we don't know how much pain Jay was in at that time. Pain is a sly beast that pushes you and makes you more tense, more intense. And, that's the good stuff.

Earlier was more his sound, his personality, and you could hear the genius in the vocabulary. JJ had his own language of jazz and his own set of rules. Transcribe a couple of solos you like. They're hard to do and harder to play. Genius, pure genius.

RD

ttf_Chris Fidler · Post by **ttf_Chris Fidler** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:46 pm

http://www.dailymotion.com/bookmarks/trombone-usa/video/x5mqs0_jay-jay-johnson-kai-windingits-alri_music

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:33 am

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Nov 19, 2008, 11:46PM http://www.dailymotion.com/bookmarks/trombone-usa/video/x5mqs0_jay-jay-johnson-kai-windingits-alri_music

There has been an ongoing thread recently on the pedagogy section about shifts, etc. called High Range Pedagogy. (http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,42893.msg592673) One of the wonderful things about many of these YouTube clips is how you can watch great players in closeup and try to learn how they do what they do.

For example, I have always remarked on how most of the time J.J.'s magnificent sound tailed off most of the time around

->

, only SOME of the time it would be really big.

Look at 1:22 of this video, where he plays the interval

->

. The low D disappears a little. (This is not a criticism. In fact, that slightly covered D is very musical. Part of J.J.'s lifelong style, a note like that. Understated, sort of like "I don't have to emphasize that root. Y'all know what it is anyway, right?")

Then look at 2:10. Eb->D->Db in the same range. Big as a house. He shifts to another setting before he plays those notes, then shifts right back to go up into his normal solo range.

An artist of the possible.

Look at his slide arm in the long shot from about 1:46 on. His slide grip. SO relaxed. Look at how little of his finger/hand/wrist/arm system moves for every change. The least amount of movement possible. Look at how limited his slide movements are, how his whole style was pretty much predicated on vertical motion through the partials rather than horizontal motion along the slide.

His was a style of conscious limitation. So elegant! So intelligent.

Go on back through this thread and LOOK! Lessons about.

Bet on it.

Later...

S.

ttf_Chris Fidler · Post by **ttf_Chris Fidler** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:40 am

Funny Sam, i did contemplate posting that video in said thread!!!

Specifically to show Kai's obvious upstream embouchure.

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:45 pm

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Nov 20, 2008, 05:40AMFunny Sam, i did contemplate posting that video in said thread!!!

Specifically to show Kai's obvious upstream embouchure.

Well...there y'are.

Now can I have that Clarke L?

S.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:47 pm

Just wanted to post a JJ video, and then saw the current discussion. I really like him on Blue Bossa, partly because of his playing, and partly because of the amazing playing exhibited by Rufus, his bass player.
Behold the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dQ77NBpQI

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:11 pm

Quote from: bobertthebone on Nov 20, 2008, 03:47PMJust wanted to post a JJ video, and then saw the current discussion. I really like him on Blue Bossa, partly because of his playing, and partly because of the amazing playing exhibited by Rufus, his bass player.
Behold the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dQ77NBpQI

wow....i listen to this and think of all of the festivals on big stages that i've played. it sounds to these ears like the time isn't locked in, except for rufus. i'm guessing that the cats couldn't hear one another well enough.

dg

ttf_baileyman · Post by **ttf_baileyman** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:54 pm

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Nov 19, 2008, 11:46PM http://www.dailymotion.com/bookmarks/trombone-usa/video/x5mqs0_jay-jay-johnson-kai-windingits-alri_music

Somewhere along the way (I'm speculating) Kai must've gotten po'd with the startling fluidity of Carl Fontana and gone to the shed to doodle. This piece must be after that. Before, he was da-ga-da-ga-da-ga all the time. Much harder. Here dah-dl-dah-dl. The 1957 Cleveland recordings seem to be toward the beginning of Kai's transition. I wish I knew more. This is just what I hear and imagine happening.

ttf_Bellend · Post by **ttf_Bellend** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:57 am

Nice little bit of Urbie giving it some.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zpSyz42z_1w

BellEnd

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:29 pm

QuoteJust wanted to post a JJ video, and then saw the current discussion. I really like him on Blue Bossa, partly because of his playing, and partly because of the amazing playing exhibited by Rufus, his bass player.
Behold the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dQ77NBpQI
On a side note:

The USAF Band of the West big band Dimensions in Blue recorded a new CD in August that featured one of Rufus's compositions "Come out and Play". Rufus came out to the studio and played for the recording. He is very nice and a fantastic musician. I would encourage everyone to keep an eye out for it early next year. The CD is titled "I'll Be Home".

John

ttf_Bob Riddle · Post by **ttf_Bob Riddle** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:41 pm

JJ,Urbie--two totally different tone qualities,two totally realxed and swinging players ,different styles,both masters of their particular approach to music and style.Love both of them!!! Love the difference!!!
VHY
Bob Riddle

ttf_Alex Ashbourne · Post by **ttf_Alex Ashbourne** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:43 pm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XmPFzeBiJTs&feature=related

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:46 am

there will never be another you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfljEEZNois

great song, great playing

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:57 pm

Quote from: KevinHickey on Nov 26, 2008, 01:46AMthere will never be another you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfljEEZNois

great song, great playing

My kind of jazz (European!) and my kind of trombone player - modern style but still hot! Love it! Nice band also!

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:00 pm

How about this one? Michael Buble plays trombone?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Mq6aefTKU

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:30 am

Quote from: Graham Martin on Nov 26, 2008, 06:00PMHow about this one? Michael Buble plays trombone?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Mq6aefTKU

And he never had a lesson.

ttf_martian · Post by **ttf_martian** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:38 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WrB_YJdMGY

Anybody want to hazard a guess as to who is the soloist in this?

ttf_Chris Fidler · Post by **ttf_Chris Fidler** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:44 pm

That's Chris Brubeck..... Dave's son!!!

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:22 pm

Who the frick is Michael Bubble?

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:26 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Nov 26, 2008, 05:57PMMy kind of jazz (European!) and my kind of trombone player - modern style but still hot! Love it! Nice band also!

Oh dear. My idea of a nightmare band, and a nightmarishly tedious bone player with no.... erm.... testosterone whatsoever. And bend over, Mr Drummer, so I can insert that ride cymbal. And somebody actually said "Yeah". Ghastly.

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:54 pm

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 27, 2008, 08:22PMWho the frick is Michael Bubble?

Male swing singer of Canadian origin. Hence the name, which is actually Michael Bublé, with a French/Canadian accent. A bit like Frank Sinatra but very much his own man these days. Has a great backing big band:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bubl%C3%A9

http://www.michaelbuble.com/

Sorry, but I like!

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 27, 2008, 08:26PMOh dear. My idea of a nightmare band, and a nightmarishly tedious bone player with no.... erm.... testosterone whatsoever. And bend over, Mr Drummer, so I can insert that ride cymbal. And somebody actually said "Yeah". Ghastly.

There are some high note doodling trombone players who I do not like. Some of them are very big names. But within the modern jazz styles I think this guy is good and the band is excellent. You really cannot criticise the use of a ride cymbal in modern jazz. It is generic to the sound and one of the main differences of the idiom to the previous hot jazz styles.

It would be like me saying that I don't like 1920s jazz because of the two-beat sounding bass or that tedious Adrian Rollini sax. It's not true, but it would be like me saying that because I only like modern jazz. I think you have got to give credit where credit is due and if you don't like the style, probably it is not fair to criticise.

Cannot comment on testosterone level. That is definitely for females to value.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:27 am

Hello Grah!

I think I CAN criticise the ride cymbal and it is not just because I'm a mouldy fig (although I am!). Its continous ringing obscures other actions on the back line (particularly the banjo, like it or no) and leads to a lack of definition in the rhythm, and I know some drummers who do nothing else except strike that thing throughout an entire tune. Whatever the instrument, NO-ONE should do the same thing throughout an entire tune and, if that is generic to a particular style of jazz, then I think I'm well justified in finding it tedious.

And when I politely say "testosterone", I mean BALLS, and I don't like players (male or female!) who play without them.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:59 am

How about a bit of TD (sorry if someone else has posted this)

A televised "Ballroom" from the early 50's

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q9sYwO_FWe0

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:14 am

Now that trombone playing is excellent! High, yes, but not fiddly crap. And what a great band.

However, although I know it's difficult to know what to do with your hands when singing (I just hold the trombone!), someone should have told that twat not to click his fingers. *squirm*

ttf_WaltTrombone · Post by **ttf_WaltTrombone** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:28 am

Next time I run into that singer, I'll pass that on to him, RHM. That's my buddy, Johnny Amoroso, still playing and singing up a storm.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:55 am

Sorry about that, Walt. However, as a player and sometime singer myself, I notice these things, and as an audience member, they annoy me. People who perform in public should be aware of how they come over to the paying audience. Bulging cheeks, rolling eyes, clicking fingers, lips pressed to the brass to cool them (

), arse or crotch scratching, even bow ties which bob up and down (

) - if you're sat there with nothing to do but look at the band, these things get noticed. Singers, who have nothing to hold and nothing to do when they aren't singing, are particularly bad for tics such as this. And no, the music isn't always good enough to take your mind off them!

ttf_BarryLee · Post by **ttf_BarryLee** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:36 pm

Hey, who's guy playing the introduction to "The Man That Got Away" for Judy Garland in "A Star Is Born?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzyPMRo8ZUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzyPMRo8ZUQ

Inquiring minds want to know. He's playing a TIS Olds or maybe a Conn, visible at about 2:50

ttf_Malec Heermans · Post by **ttf_Malec Heermans** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:44 pm

Hoyt Bohannon?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047522/fullcredits#cast

ttf_BarryLee · Post by **ttf_BarryLee** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:12 pm

That looks plausible to me.

Somewhere out there is a Very Big Book that credits all recorded music out there -- at least from those days.

Erling's got a copy, I think.