King 3B for a high school student?

[Diana6]

I am thinking about getting my 14 year old son a used King 3B. He has been listening to different trombones on youtube and says he loves the sound of the 3B the best. He plays in a jazz band and has an 1964 Olds Special that he uses now. I want to keep his interest going so I want to find out more about the 3B before purchasing one.

I have read that they can vary a great deal. We would be more interested in one that is on the lighter side, for a smaller kid, if they vary in weight. Also, one that is more open? and easy playing. My budget is around $800 so I understand the condition would probably not be excellent.

Any suggestions for specific years, bell material, etc...?

Matt K Edit: Modified title and moved to Instruments section for clarity

[Bonearzt]

The 3B will be similar in weight to the Olds, and slightly heavier with the F attachment.
REALLY good horns but underrated!!!! Might be more open feeling only due to the difference in bore size.

I have one available right in your price range, plus shipping.

Thanks!!
Eric

[Matt K]

The trombone is a relatively small part of the equation in determining what one "sounds" like. If the horn doesn't match the player, then they won't necessarily sound like what they're hearing. E.g. Bill Watrous plays a Bach 16M, but if he were to pick up a King 3B he would sound very, very similar to how he sounds on his Bach. Basically identically, actually. But the feel would be different. Obviously in this case, Watrous has decided over the decades he's been playing that the horn he has feels best and helps him achieve the sound he desires.

In other words, it isn't necessarily the 3B that they are hearing; rather, it is the players they are hearing that happen to like the 3B.

That said, the 3B is a very popular horn and may well suit them. But there are lots of horns and it would probably be advisable to try some horns out first, if there is anyway to do so in your general area. Know that the Olds that they currently have is also a top level horn even though the company went out of business long ago. So you really don't have any bad options among your range of what you've laid out about the situation!

[Jbeckett]

Donald j Kennedy on face book or DJKennedy here has a plethora of the beloved 3Bs.

[greenbean]

There are at least three 3B's listed here in the Classified section...

[GeeSamYouWell]

I played a 3b all through Jr. High and High School. Great choice. They have enough "room" for him to develop his sound, they are versatile, and they are DURABLE. I found it difficult to damage mine, despite much effort.

[Diana6]

Thanks for the replies. I think I posted this in the wrong section. It should have been instruments not classifieds. I have seen the 3B's in the classified section. We're in the process of saving up for one... so not quite ready. Are there certain years that would be best? Or, is every 3B different and would need to be individually evaluated?

[Matt K]

Thanks for the replies. I think I posted this in the wrong section. It should have been instruments not classifieds. I have seen the 3B's in the classified section. We're in the process of saving up for one... so not quite ready. Are there certain years that would be best? Or, is every 3B different and would need to be individually evaluated?

Sort of yes and no. You generally want to evaluate a horn before you buy if it's possible. Kings are usually pretty consistent but you aren't going to notice a whole lot of difference between them - usually - until you have a lot more experience playing and then it's only very subtle degrees of different.

I'll move your thread and change the title for you too.

-Matt

[Diana6]

Thanks Matt.

I think I've read that some players do not like the more recent 3B's as much and that the ones from the 50's, 60's, 70's are more desirable. Someone said that the later ones do not have the King sound like the vintage ones. Is this accurate and can someone describe the King sound for me?

[Matt K]

Thanks Matt.

I think I've read that some players do not like the more recent 3B's as much and that the ones from the 50's, 60's, 70's are more desirable. Someone said that the later ones do not have the King sound like the vintage ones. Is this accurate and can someone describe the King sound for me?

That's kind of true but there's a lot more nuance to it. There are some popular horns that have a pretty wide variety in quality (e.g. last year some retailers like HornGuys stopped carrying the Conn 88 model because of the lack of QC, Bachs made during a labor dispute at the factory and during the time after had a variable degree of quality, etc.). I'm not really aware of the Kings suffering from those particular problems, although certainly they could and I might not be aware of it as they are owned by the same parent company (Conn-Selmer).

Generally speaking, a horn that is designed well and built well (without manufacturing defects like solder globs in the tubes or forcing parts together and then soldering them inplace, etc.) is going to play fine for most players within the context of what they are playing. (So a generic player with a good quality large bore will probably find that it works well for an orchestra; a generic player with a good quality small bore will find it works for jazz settings, etc.)

Then there's another layer on top of that which one doesn't really start to get into until they have put a LOT of time on the horn. At least level of really top tier undergraduate students or good masters students. You start to pick up on nuance between two different, otherwise "identical" horns even when blindfolded. Do those players prefer vintage horns? Maybe. I don't know if you could really get a sample size large enough to be meaningful, especially about a specific model.

Then there are all of the shades in between those two. Major changes can be picked up on by a lot of players. Like a really, really heavy bell vs a light bell. But we're all human and it's very easy to listen with our eyes. Pros have that problem too.

In other words, at this level, I wouldn't fret over the vintage of the instrument you're buying. Especially for a King 3B. It'll be fine for a high school student even if it ultimately ends up not being the best horn for them. No way to know that unless you have a time machine!

Concerning the "King sound": I think the term 'sound' is generally used when it would be more accurate to describe 'feel'. I sound like me on a King, a Bach, a Shires, etc. but certain horns balance out the limitations and strengths of my physiology. But the only experience I have with Kings in the recent past was one of their long out-of-production bass trombones so I would hesitate to make any assessment in that regard.

[Geordie]

As a generalization I’d suggest that good condition used older horns from reputable makers like King offer better value. Not universally true but a principle that has served me well.