Learning as B-flat on G clef, C on F clef

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:21 am

Or learning the trombone as both a B flat instrument and a C instrument.

I managed it quite by accident. My tutor was a brass bander, and he taught me the b flat transposition on the treble/G clef. Under the impression that a little extra wouldn't go amiss, I bought myself the New Tune A Day Trombone book and simultaneously worked my way through that. It is a bass/F clef book.

So without putting any great effort into it, I found myself reading both the B flat transposition and the bass/F clef.

I can guess some tutors would not approve.

But what I'd like to know is, has anyone else learnt to read both? (The benefits for me are that I can pick up a clarinet or sax score and read it; alternatively a cello or bassoon score and read it.) If so, what were your methods, your work-arounds, your gotchas, etc?

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:34 am

Yes, when I was a teenager learning trombone, the Tijuana Brass were very big. There were Tijuana Brass songbooks for brass groups, but the trumpets got all the melody.

I was determined not to let that stop me.

ttf_ronnies · Post by **ttf_ronnies** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:49 am

Started in Primary 6 reading treble clef as Bb transposing. Switched to bass clef when I went to secondary school. Starting on treble did help with tenor clef parts !!

Ronnie

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:48 am

I went the other way. Learned tenor clef in High School and figured out that it let me read the trumpet and tenor sax parts. I read transposed treble as tenor clef.

ttf_Zandit75 · Post by **ttf_Zandit75** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:49 pm

I started on Bass Clef when in Highschool. When I joined the local Brass Band the only position I could play was Bass Trombone The 1st and 2nd Trom parts were always written in Treble Clef.
I later learnt how to read Treble Clef, and eventually Tenor Clef for the few times it comes up.
3 of the 5 trom players in our band can read both Bass and Treble, as well as muck around with Tenor Clef. It's gobbledigook for the other members of our section!

ttf_Bimmerman · Post by **ttf_Bimmerman** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Yesterday at 02:48 AMI went the other way. Learned tenor clef in High School and figured out that it let me read the trumpet and tenor sax parts. I read transposed treble as tenor clef.

This was my experience as well.

Reading Bb treble as tenor clef has been far more useful to know than C treble, if I'm honest. I learned C treble through jazz combo since our director made us all work from the C real book, but haven't used it nearly as much as Bb Treble/Tenor transposition.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:07 pm

Quote from: Bimmerman on Yesterday at 02:14 PMThis was my experience as well.

Reading Bb treble as tenor clef has been far more useful to know than C treble, if I'm honest. I learned C treble through jazz combo since our director made us all work from the C real book, but haven't used it nearly as much as Bb Treble/Tenor transposition.

My limitation is that I can't improvise over chords in Bb treble (or Eb treble). I need to use the C chords. Other than that, I can play Bb treble parts reading as tenor. I sat next to a Euph player who couldn't read Bb treble. We'd switch parts when he encountered a Bb part -- he'd play my trombone part and I'd play his Euph part.

ttf_Bimmerman · Post by **ttf_Bimmerman** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:19 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Yesterday at 03:07 PMMy limitation is that I can't improvise over chords in Bb treble (or Eb treble). I need to use the C chords. Other than that, I can play Bb treble parts reading as tenor. I sat next to a Euph player who couldn't read Bb treble. We'd switch parts when he encountered a Bb part -- he'd play my trombone part and I'd play his Euph part.

Ha, yea. I find it easier to improvise with Bb treble, because I know I can't read the chords so I have to go by ear instead. With C parts I fool myself into thinking if I read the chords I'll do better...but it always sounds worse when I try to read and think through the chorus.

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:57 am

After I learned Bass Clef euphonium in school, I went into a junior drum and bugle corp and their music was all written as if you were playing Bb trumpet fingerings in Treble clef (all the horns were actually in G at the time). So yes I can read both now, and it has helped me easily pick up CC tuba since the fingerings are the same as Treble clef Euphonium (but in Bass clef).

ttf_Doghouse Dan · Post by **ttf_Doghouse Dan** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Quote from: Radar on Today at 11:57 AMAfter I learned Bass Clef euphonium in school, I went into a junior drum and bugle corp and their music was all written as if you were playing Bb trumpet fingerings in Treble clef (all the horns were actually in G at the time). So yes I can read both now, and it has helped me easily pick up CC tuba since the fingerings are the same as Treble clef Euphonium (but in Bass clef).

I don't understand. For CC tuba, my transposition trick is to read it as if it were alto clef.

ttf_Doghouse Dan · Post by **ttf_Doghouse Dan** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Quote from: Radar on Today at 11:57 AMAfter I learned Bass Clef euphonium in school, I went into a junior drum and bugle corp and their music was all written as if you were playing Bb trumpet fingerings in Treble clef (all the horns were actually in G at the time). So yes I can read both now, and it has helped me easily pick up CC tuba since the fingerings are the same as Treble clef Euphonium (but in Bass clef).

I don't understand. For CC tuba, my transposition trick is to read it as if it were alto clef.