Straight/Cup mute

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:04 pm

I thought someone made a combined cup/straight mute. Wick perhaps?

Does anyone know?

ttf_JasonDonnelly · Post by **ttf_JasonDonnelly** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:16 pm

Most of the modern cup mutes made today have removable cups, so that the mute turns into a straight. These include Denis Wick, Jo-Ral, and Windy City.

They can be good in a pinch, but I personally find that the resulting straight mute is okay at best.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:37 pm

Harmon made something called a "Triple Play" which was a straight mute with a cup portion that fit on the outside of the straight. The cup could also be used as a plunger. I found it to be OK on small bore trombones but not acceptable on large bores (even 0.525's).

The Shastock Tone Color was a straight mute with a cylindrical section that could take a metal cup accessory. It's not a very good cup mute and really doesn't blend well with either all fiber mutes or with aluminum mutes. I also found the corks supplied on the Tone Color didn't fit well and the mute felt very stuffy. I think removing them and replacing with a thicker cork would make it play better, but I have a number of better mutes and didn't bother.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:31 pm

Thanks Bruce. The Harmon is now called a J3. Found one for sale on Amazon for about $50 or so. Advertised as intended for students, but I'm not playing with Maria Schneider anytime soon.(Loved her in Last Tango by the way.)

Or ... maybe not. I found some reviews on line that made it sound like it might be junk.

The Wick "adjustable" - does the cup part come off, letting you use it as a straight mute?

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:50 pm

The Wick is the one I see people using around town in LA.

Personally I'm not a fan. Like JasonDonnelly mentioned, the cup mute portion is fine but the straight mute just isn't as good as a traditional straight mute.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:04 pm

I see something called the Soulo.

Anyone familiar with this?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:12 pm

Can't tell you much about the Soulo, although there have been a few positive comments about it here.

The Harmon is really designed for a small bore. I use it with my Martin Imperial and it works OK. Problem is that the fit between the cup and straight portion gets loose and when you go to pull out the cup it leaves the straight in (big problem for fast mute changes). If you are playing a more modern instrument it might be best not considered.

There are two versions of the Wick cup. The first one had the cup portion sliding on from the end of the mute. I had one of these and loved it. The straight portion is a little bigger than the conical mutes like the StoneLine and handles the lower register a lot better. With this setup I could do a cup to straight change without taking the mute out of the horn.

The newer version has the cup sliding down from where the mute goes into the bell. I don't like this as much, but it's all they make now. If you have a quick cup-straight change you will need a separate straight mute.

Neither a good symphonic mute on its own, though. You eill still need a good symphonic straight.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:40 am

Hickey's carries four combo cup mutes:

[li]Denis Wick "Adjustable" - I have a two-year-old bass trombone version, where the cup slides up and down the cylindrical section to adjust to different bell sizes, and can also be slid all the way off leaving an uncupped mute. Work fine as a cup mute; not so good as a straight mute. Apparently on the newer Wick Adjustables, the cup does not slide all the way off. Just as well - I just purchased a new Denis Wick aluminium bass trombone straight mute, which works great. (But one more thing to stuff into my mute/accessories bag!)

[/li]

[li]Jo-Ral Adjustable Cup Mute - similar to the Denis Wick. Cup will slide all the way off to simulate a straight mute. But it may also wobble while being used as a cup!

[/li]

[li]Windy City Adjustable Cup Mute - similar to the Jo-Ral and Wick.

[/li]

[li]Harmon "Triple Play" J3 - as described above. I've never played (or even seen) one. [/li]

My feeling: I love the adjustable cup feature of these mutes. But on some (Jo-Ral), the cup slides too easily on the cylindrical body, so it won't always stay put! I still prefer a separate straight mute, for a "classic" sound.

ttf_Rockymountaintrombone · Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:17 am

Soulo cup is a good mute, but like the Wick, it's just OK when you remove the cup portion and use it as a straight mute. I think that's fairly universal - it's a compromise to use a cup mute with the cup portion removed as a straight mute.

Jim Scott

ttf_Stan · Post by **ttf_Stan** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:22 am

I've got the Wick for my bass. For the groups I play in, it's fine as a straight.

Stan

ttf_JasonDonnelly · Post by **ttf_JasonDonnelly** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:10 am

Quote from: Posaunus on Sep 18, 2017, 12:40AMWindy City Adjustable Cup Mute - similar to the Jo-Ral and Wick.

I can attest to the quality of the Windy City cup. I have yet to try it with the cup portion removed, though.

ttf_RMTrombone · Post by **ttf_RMTrombone** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:44 pm

Quote from: Posaunus on Sep 18, 2017, 12:40AMHickey's carries four combo cup mutes:

[li]Denis Wick "Adjustable" - I have a two-year-old bass trombone version, where the cup slides up and down the cylindrical section to adjust to different bell sizes, and can also be slid all the way off leaving an uncupped mute. Work fine as a cup mute; not so good as a straight mute. Apparently on the newer Wick Adjustables, the cup does not slide all the way off. Just as well - I just purchased a new Denis Wick aluminium bass trombone straight mute, which works great. (But one more thing to stuff into my mute/accessories bag!)

[/li]

[li]Jo-Ral Adjustable Cup Mute - similar to the Denis Wick. Cup will slide all the way off to simulate a straight mute. But it may also wobble while being used as a cup!

[/li]

[li]Windy City Adjustable Cup Mute - similar to the Jo-Ral and Wick.

[/li]

[li]Harmon "Triple Play" J3 - as described above. I've never played (or even seen) one. [/li]

My feeling: I love the adjustable cup feature of these mutes. But on some (Jo-Ral), the cup slides too easily on the cylindrical body, so it won't always stay put! I still prefer a separate straight mute, for a "classic" sound.

I have played the "Jo-Ral Adjustable Cup Mute" for about 20 years. In an emergency I loan the body for a straight mute, but it does not sound very good or blend.
If I buy a new cup mute I will get a fixed cup and adjust the corks.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Because of the close manufacturing tolerances, there is sufficient friction that the cup portion of the Wick "Adjustable" mute stays put wherever you place it relative to the bell (unlike the loose Jo-Ral cup). This can be helpful when using the mute on more than one trombone, since their bell throats may differ. And the sound of the Wick mute is quite satisfactory when used as a cup - not so good when stripped down to a straight.

ttf_William Lang · Post by **ttf_William Lang** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:36 pm

trumcore makes a nice adjustable cup (fibre instead of metal) that can double as a straight

ttf_William Lang · Post by **ttf_William Lang** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:36 pm

trumcore makes a nice adjustable cup (fibre instead of metal) that can double as a straight