We all know "that guy". Every band has one.
He's been with the band forever, and his tenured status allows him to be a complete jerk to everyone. He grumpily defends his chair, and argues with every musical decision, business opportunity, etc. He is the resident historian and institutional memory, and is able to unfailingly recite the number of times "we tried that and it sucked" or "we've played that one before".
Tempos are always too fast, the band is always too loud, and the gig ALWAYS sucked.
So let us collectively explore the Legend of The Curmudgeon:
1) your favorite curmudgeon story
2) your best strategy for derailing him
3) perhaps most importantly- how to avoid BECOMING the curmudgeon!
(the masculine gender form is used here for convenience, and because The Curmudgeon usually seems to be a guy- specifically, a gray haired, bearded, heavy set guy with questionable playing ability and an endless supply of complaints, gripes, b**ches, and stories about how it used to be better than it is now)
The Curmudgeon
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ttf_Toddbrubaker
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ttf_bassmike
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The Curmudgeon
Hey! You talking about ME? 
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ttf_Toddbrubaker
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The Curmudgeon
HA!
Maybe we should add #4:
4) If you ARE the Curmudgeon, none of this could possibly be your fault and you should blame everyone else for not responding to your pithy wisdom and scintillating knowledge of How It Ought To Be.
Maybe we should add #4:
4) If you ARE the Curmudgeon, none of this could possibly be your fault and you should blame everyone else for not responding to your pithy wisdom and scintillating knowledge of How It Ought To Be.
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
The Curmudgeon
Quote from: Toddbrubaker on Yesterday at 05:12 AMWe all know "that guy". Every band has one.
He's been with the band forever, and his tenured status allows him to be a complete jerk to everyone. He grumpily defends his chair, and argues with every musical decision, business opportunity, etc. He is the resident historian and institutional memory, and is able to unfailingly recite the number of times "we tried that and it sucked" or "we've played that one before".
Tempos are always too fast, the band is always too loud, and the gig ALWAYS sucked.
So let us collectively explore the Legend of The Curmudgeon:
1) your favorite curmudgeon story
2) your best strategy for derailing him
3) perhaps most importantly- how to avoid BECOMING the curmudgeon!
(the masculine gender form is used here for convenience, and because The Curmudgeon usually seems to be a guy- specifically, a gray haired, bearded, heavy set guy with questionable playing ability and an endless supply of complaints, gripes, b**ches, and stories about how it used to be better than it is now)
For some odd reason (maybe it's that he doesn't practice) he insists on playing from a book lower than his actual chair so he can be seen occupying as high a chair as his "seniority" allows. And what seniority has to do with seating in a community band is so far over my head to begin with...
Or this: He can't actually play the part he insists on being in possession of but he takes the book anyway b/c the lower parts are beneath him and boring.
...Geezer
He's been with the band forever, and his tenured status allows him to be a complete jerk to everyone. He grumpily defends his chair, and argues with every musical decision, business opportunity, etc. He is the resident historian and institutional memory, and is able to unfailingly recite the number of times "we tried that and it sucked" or "we've played that one before".
Tempos are always too fast, the band is always too loud, and the gig ALWAYS sucked.
So let us collectively explore the Legend of The Curmudgeon:
1) your favorite curmudgeon story
2) your best strategy for derailing him
3) perhaps most importantly- how to avoid BECOMING the curmudgeon!
(the masculine gender form is used here for convenience, and because The Curmudgeon usually seems to be a guy- specifically, a gray haired, bearded, heavy set guy with questionable playing ability and an endless supply of complaints, gripes, b**ches, and stories about how it used to be better than it is now)
For some odd reason (maybe it's that he doesn't practice) he insists on playing from a book lower than his actual chair so he can be seen occupying as high a chair as his "seniority" allows. And what seniority has to do with seating in a community band is so far over my head to begin with...
Or this: He can't actually play the part he insists on being in possession of but he takes the book anyway b/c the lower parts are beneath him and boring.
...Geezer
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ttf_Toddbrubaker
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm
The Curmudgeon
Quote from: Geezerhorn on Yesterday at 05:32 AMAnd what seniority has to do with seating in a community band is so far over my head to begin with...
That's a whole 'nother topic! Yeah, the seating placement in some ensembles is a combination of seniority, heredity, legacy, and Game of Thrones....kinda like when you go to church and accidentally sit in "Sister Ethel's" seat...WOE UNTO YOU!
That's a whole 'nother topic! Yeah, the seating placement in some ensembles is a combination of seniority, heredity, legacy, and Game of Thrones....kinda like when you go to church and accidentally sit in "Sister Ethel's" seat...WOE UNTO YOU!
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ttf_MikeBMiller
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The Curmudgeon
I think I AM the curmudgeon in my jazz band. The band has been around for 20 years. I have been in it for about 19 of those. Me and 3 out of the 4 trumpet players have been there since the start.
I have played every chair in the section at one time or another. Mostly lead, but there have been a few times when a better player has come along and I have gladly handed the lead book to them. I do have a lot of institutional memory and can remember just about every gig we have ever done. And I do have strong opinions about certain tunes that suck. The running joke in the band is some tune called Tonka Bean, which was one of the first tunes we ever got. To be blunt, that tune sucks and I have strong opinions on it. So someone always throws it out as a suggestion when I am around.
In our community concert band we have a guy who is about 80 who insists on being the first chair trumpet player, despite the fact that he is well past his prime. He can't play in tune or play high or sight read or do much of anything you would expect from a lead trumpet player. And his presence in the band has chased away a lot of other good trumpet players who have come in and played with us for a short time. I don't wish anything ill on him, but I will be happy when he finally retires.
I have played every chair in the section at one time or another. Mostly lead, but there have been a few times when a better player has come along and I have gladly handed the lead book to them. I do have a lot of institutional memory and can remember just about every gig we have ever done. And I do have strong opinions about certain tunes that suck. The running joke in the band is some tune called Tonka Bean, which was one of the first tunes we ever got. To be blunt, that tune sucks and I have strong opinions on it. So someone always throws it out as a suggestion when I am around.
In our community concert band we have a guy who is about 80 who insists on being the first chair trumpet player, despite the fact that he is well past his prime. He can't play in tune or play high or sight read or do much of anything you would expect from a lead trumpet player. And his presence in the band has chased away a lot of other good trumpet players who have come in and played with us for a short time. I don't wish anything ill on him, but I will be happy when he finally retires.
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ttf_Toddbrubaker
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The Curmudgeon
Quote from: MikeBMiller on Yesterday at 07:08 AMhis presence in the band has chased away a lot of other good trumpet players who have come in and played with us for a short time.
Good point Mike- it's unfortunate that sometimes the Curmudgeon can chase away good folks who simply don't want to put up with the junk!
Good point Mike- it's unfortunate that sometimes the Curmudgeon can chase away good folks who simply don't want to put up with the junk!
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ttf_gregs70
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The Curmudgeon
Quote from: MikeBMiller on Yesterday at 07:08 AMI think I AM the curmudgeon in my jazz band. The band has been around for 20 years. I have been in it for about 19 of those. Me and 3 out of the 4 trumpet players have been there since the start.
I have played every chair in the section at one time or another. Mostly lead, but there have been a few times when a better player has come along and I have gladly handed the lead book to them. I do have a lot of institutional memory and can remember just about every gig we have ever done. And I do have strong opinions about certain tunes that suck. The running joke in the band is some tune called Tonka Bean, which was one of the first tunes we ever got. To be blunt, that tune sucks and I have strong opinions on it. So someone always throws it out as a suggestion when I am around.
In our community concert band we have a guy who is about 80 who insists on being the first chair trumpet player, despite the fact that he is well past his prime. He can't play in tune or play high or sight read or do much of anything you would expect from a lead trumpet player. And his presence in the band has chased away a lot of other good trumpet players who have come in and played with us for a short time. I don't wish anything ill on him, but I will be happy when he finally retires.
You do not qualify as the curmudgeon. If you say a tune sucks and it does suck, if you don't hold on to the lead chair like you won it, you are not one. You are just a good band member.
Been there on the band. Played in a community band where the first chair t-bone and trumpet were founding members but not first chair quality players, same with first chair trombone in a community orchestra. The t-bone in the community band has an annoying lip vibrato, refused to acknowledge it or see any need to change. The bass bone player had to lead the section musically. The orchestra did Grand Canyon Suite; there is one first trombone part in the On The Trail movement where he imitates a donkey walking down a hill, or something like that. Our illustrious first chair couldn't make an important concert and somebody else played it - several people commented "Oh, THAT is what is supposed to sound like". Not so much a curmudgeon as a dilettante.
I have played every chair in the section at one time or another. Mostly lead, but there have been a few times when a better player has come along and I have gladly handed the lead book to them. I do have a lot of institutional memory and can remember just about every gig we have ever done. And I do have strong opinions about certain tunes that suck. The running joke in the band is some tune called Tonka Bean, which was one of the first tunes we ever got. To be blunt, that tune sucks and I have strong opinions on it. So someone always throws it out as a suggestion when I am around.
In our community concert band we have a guy who is about 80 who insists on being the first chair trumpet player, despite the fact that he is well past his prime. He can't play in tune or play high or sight read or do much of anything you would expect from a lead trumpet player. And his presence in the band has chased away a lot of other good trumpet players who have come in and played with us for a short time. I don't wish anything ill on him, but I will be happy when he finally retires.
You do not qualify as the curmudgeon. If you say a tune sucks and it does suck, if you don't hold on to the lead chair like you won it, you are not one. You are just a good band member.
Been there on the band. Played in a community band where the first chair t-bone and trumpet were founding members but not first chair quality players, same with first chair trombone in a community orchestra. The t-bone in the community band has an annoying lip vibrato, refused to acknowledge it or see any need to change. The bass bone player had to lead the section musically. The orchestra did Grand Canyon Suite; there is one first trombone part in the On The Trail movement where he imitates a donkey walking down a hill, or something like that. Our illustrious first chair couldn't make an important concert and somebody else played it - several people commented "Oh, THAT is what is supposed to sound like". Not so much a curmudgeon as a dilettante.
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ttf_BGuttman
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The Curmudgeon
You talking about ME? 
My orchestra got even with me. They elected me President for this season.
I play better than any of the other trombonists in the two Community Bands I play in. I play bass trombone in the two Big Bands, although I have sat in 1st (on the bass trombone) in a few rehearsals
I do find that there are some who find me less of a player (probably because they aren't really better than I am) but I tell everybody: I play the part placed in front of me.
My orchestra got even with me. They elected me President for this season.
I play better than any of the other trombonists in the two Community Bands I play in. I play bass trombone in the two Big Bands, although I have sat in 1st (on the bass trombone) in a few rehearsals
I do find that there are some who find me less of a player (probably because they aren't really better than I am) but I tell everybody: I play the part placed in front of me.
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ttf_Toddbrubaker
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The Curmudgeon
Great posts! I thought most of us would probably have a Curmudgeon story or two to tell 
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ttf_ddickerson
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The Curmudgeon
In our church band we have a guy like that. He complains about the sound, the volume, the songs, placement of mikes, chairs, etc.
He stays so worked up through the service that he keeps his fists all fisted up and pushed up into the front of his bell.
What's so bad, he is the only French Horn player we got.
He stays so worked up through the service that he keeps his fists all fisted up and pushed up into the front of his bell.
What's so bad, he is the only French Horn player we got.
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ttf_MikeBMiller
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The Curmudgeon
Quote from: gregs70 on Yesterday at 06:38 PMYou do not qualify as the curmudgeon.
Well, at least I am a CIT (curmudgeon in training).
Well, at least I am a CIT (curmudgeon in training).
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ttf_LowrBrass
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The Curmudgeon
Quote from: gregs70 on Yesterday at 06:38 PMYou do not qualify as the curmudgeon.
Respectfully disagree. Being a curmudgeon doesn't mean you're wrong!
My favorite curmudgeon is right at least 90% of the time. He's just loud and un-tactful about his opinions (sometimes during concerts).
Respectfully disagree. Being a curmudgeon doesn't mean you're wrong!
My favorite curmudgeon is right at least 90% of the time. He's just loud and un-tactful about his opinions (sometimes during concerts).
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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The Curmudgeon
I guess I am a Lemming. I tend to stick with a group until:
1) I have learned all I can learn or
2) It doesn't interest me anymore or
3) I don't like what's going on.
Then I quit the group. When I quit a group, I try to do it as politely as I can b/c there are usually a lot of people I like. But if that doesn't work, I quit anyway and hope the ones I like will understand and still like me anyway.
...Geezer
1) I have learned all I can learn or
2) It doesn't interest me anymore or
3) I don't like what's going on.
Then I quit the group. When I quit a group, I try to do it as politely as I can b/c there are usually a lot of people I like. But if that doesn't work, I quit anyway and hope the ones I like will understand and still like me anyway.
...Geezer
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ttf_Graham Martin
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The Curmudgeon
I think there is a need for members of a band to be constructively critical based on their knowledge and experience. However, this criticism should be done in a non bad-tempered or surly manner, which would clear them of the 'curmudgeon' definition.
I must admit that I have found it very necessary with our community big band to raise many matters with the band rep so that he can attempt to influence those making the decisions. There is a right and a wrong way to try and get things changed.
The other point you make about the curmudgeon characters, who try to hang on to first when they are not playing well enough, is also well known to me. I stress though that it does not apply to me! As I advised in a previous post, my lip had recently deteriorated to a point where I decided to stand down completely from the band whilst I try to get it back. I think community band musicians, especially when they are getting on in years, must be super critical of their own skills and make sure they are making a totally competent contribution to the band.
I must admit that I have found it very necessary with our community big band to raise many matters with the band rep so that he can attempt to influence those making the decisions. There is a right and a wrong way to try and get things changed.
The other point you make about the curmudgeon characters, who try to hang on to first when they are not playing well enough, is also well known to me. I stress though that it does not apply to me! As I advised in a previous post, my lip had recently deteriorated to a point where I decided to stand down completely from the band whilst I try to get it back. I think community band musicians, especially when they are getting on in years, must be super critical of their own skills and make sure they are making a totally competent contribution to the band.
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ttf_MikeBMiller
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The Curmudgeon
I do have a reputation in both my concert and jazz bands of being the guy who will say what everyone else is thinking but is too nice to say. Like "didn't we play this lousy tune for the past 12 Christmas concerts in a row!?" And I did send a famous email to the whole concert band last year basically saying that they needed to get off their butts and practice their horns if they didn't want the band to suck. But I was much nicer about it than that. I don't think I actually said "suck."
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ttf_MikeBMiller
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The Curmudgeon
I do have a reputation in both my concert and jazz bands of being the guy who will say what everyone else is thinking but is too nice to say. Like "didn't we play this lousy tune for the past 12 Christmas concerts in a row!?" And I did send a famous email to the whole concert band last year basically saying that they needed to get off their butts and practice their horns if they didn't want the band to suck. But I was much nicer about it than that. I don't think I actually said "suck."