Welcome to hear my latest recording project.

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ttf_watermailonman
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Post by ttf_watermailonman »

A music camp with a symphony orchestra in two weeks  Image Time to get in shape and start practice. Comments and advice welcome! 

Largo from "Dido and Aneas" by Henry Purcell [Holton TR-150 Tenor trombone from 1966]
https://soundcloud.com/user-796193724/largo-from-dido-and-aneas-by-henry-purcell-1


/Tom
ttf_watermailonman
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Welcome to hear my latest recording project.

Post by ttf_watermailonman »

Anything?

I have really appreciated the help I've had in the past.

I would very much appreciate more help/advice/comments from all. Amateurs or professionals as well as music lovers of any kind.

YOU, anyone on the planet, as you all have my respect for all different reasons. Knowledge, experience, professionalism, enthusiasm, good ears and patience.

I would be happy for you taking the time. As before I'm prepared to do another recording to improve.

Thanks in advance  Image

/Tom
ttf_uncle duke
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Post by ttf_uncle duke »

  I listened yesterday and the sound is fine.  What you chose tune wise gave me the feeling of a late Feb, before ides of March and or the 2nd - 3rd week of October time period.  Nothing really to get excited for but nothing bad on the horizon coming up either type of feeling.

  I don't know where you're at but it's hot summertime here - the ecosystem is in full swing.  I hope that's understandable.  Just the wrong tune at the wrong time.  Don't worry about it.   

 
ttf_hyperbolica
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Post by ttf_hyperbolica »

Here and there you can hear a little slide between the notes. I'd try to make better use of natural slurs on the instrument, which might lead into some alternate positions. It's easy to get sloppy with the slide and articulation on slow stuff. Overall, maybe a  little more dynamic range too (louder loud, softer softs), although I know that's tough with recordings.

To go along with Duke's comment, maybe a livelier selection to go with this.

Great sound. It takes guts to record yourself and ask the internet for criticism!


ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn »

Amateur here posting.

Nice sound.

I always ask myself, "What makes the trombone unique and how can I express that uniqueness?" To my ears, your legato play sounds like it could have been from a French horn. So why play a trombone, then. Why not play a valved instrument. I know this is a classical piece and not a jazz piece. And yet I wanted to hear some trombone sounds. As suggested above, perhaps connect some notes here and there with slide movements, cross-grain and natural slurs so that it is clearly a trombone playing. But if that is allowed, it has to be done subtly and tastefully - given the nature of the piece.

It's been said that a trombone is the closest musical instrument to the human voice. How would a vocalist have sung that song? Perhaps vary the articulation? I pretty much heard the same style of articulation throughout the piece. Even in a classical piece, isn't it okay to accent notes in a variety of ways. And perhaps glide a little wee bit into notes - as vocalists are prone to do? Or are classical singers not allowed to do that?

I believe every song should have style. I would characterize your style in that song to be flat or neutral. Okay, I guess that is also a style as well, but I like to hear a style move off of neutral at least just a bit. Do classical pieces of this nature have to be played so stylistically flat; so technically perfect? Where are the elements that no composer can musically notate?

It was pretty, though. But I think it could have more trombone "presence".

...my two cents as an amateur not at all knowledgeable about classical works.

...Geezer
ttf_bigbassbone1
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Welcome to hear my latest recording project.

Post by ttf_bigbassbone1 »

I have commented on your previous ones, not sure if my comments were helpful or not, so please feel free to tell me if they are not.

From my memory of previous recordings you have shared, this one, I believe is superior in every way. What I enjoyed, was hearing you keep a consistent quality of sound across the register. When you played loud, I think everything lined up well for you, the articulations were clear, the sound was level and consistent and the legato felt like it had flow and direction.

There were a few areas I think you could address. Your softer playing stands out as being noticably weaker than your louder playing. Longer notes in the soft dynamics tended to consistently "waver" in both sound and pitch. It was as though you were battling to play at a soft dynamic that was just out of your comfort zone. Make sure your air stays steady in soft dynamics, and dont be afraid to really blow through your slurs. It wasn't so present when you played loud, but a lot of your legato playing at the soft dymamic suffered from "bulges" in the sound. Consistent airflow and making sure your slurs are supported with air should fix that. I would practice those soft passages loud, because it seems a lot of those issues are not present in your loud playing. Play the same phrase over and over, dropping a dynamic each time, but keeping the energy and good qualities you get from when you play loud all the way down to the soft dynamic you need. (It goes without saying, but I am not referring to your use of vibrato, just to be clear).

A couple of other smaller issues,
There were a few times where it sounded like you stagnated a bit in you musical phrasing. The piano sounds as though at times (mainly at the beginning when its soft) that it is dragging you along. You can use rubato of course, but make sure that there is direction and flow to what you are doing. Listen back to your loud section towards the end, perhaps try to incorporate some of how you approached that musically into the soft section.

The last point I noticed was that whilst your pitch was good most of the time, as i mentioned, I think it waivered a bit at the beginning because your airflow was not consistent, but to my ear the very last note fell quite flat towards the end. You articulated it well, but its almost as though you gave up on the note before you stopped playing it. Keep the energy and intent all the way up to when you stop playing, that should sort out the pitch.

Hope there is stuff you can take away from my comments. Lots of great things, thanks for sharing!
ttf_watermailonman
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Post by ttf_watermailonman »

Quote from: uncle duke on Yesterday at 02:08 PM  I listened yesterday and the sound is fine.  What you chose tune wise gave me the feeling of a late Feb, before ides of March and or the 2nd - 3rd week of October time period.  Nothing really to get excited for but nothing bad on the horizon coming up either type of feeling.

  I don't know where you're at but it's hot summertime here - the ecosystem is in full swing.  I hope that's understandable.  Just the wrong tune at the wrong time.  Don't worry about it.   

"where I'm at?" Since I'm not native English I don't exactly know what that meant. My first answer is I'm in Sweden and we are having a rather windy and wet summer. I was in Czechia last week and there in Prague the sky opened and the water drowned us and cellars were flooded. The bear was good  Image

Yes the piece is a melancholic piece from an opera. The lyrics begin "When I am laid, am laid in earth.."
Not the most cheerful mood, so maybe kind of feb, march or october for you.

Thank's for the comment 

Quote from: hyperbolica on Yesterday at 06:22 PMHere and there you can hear a little slide between the notes. I'd try to make better use of natural slurs on the instrument, which might lead into some alternate positions. It's easy to get sloppy with the slide and articulation on slow stuff. Overall, maybe a  little more dynamic range too (louder loud, softer softs), although I know that's tough with recordings.

Yes, this is true. I do use alternate positions to minimize the time between notes where appropriate, but not always natural slurs because they are difficult. I do use my tongue, but sparsely. The mic is just up the bell so nothing is hidden and no effects used what so ever because anything I add makes it just sound more unnatural. 
  
Quote
To go along with Duke's comment, maybe a livelier selection to go with this.

The song is in a heft and it is the first movement in a suite. The other movement is livelier, but they are not originally composed as a suite. 

Quote 
Great sound. It takes guts to record yourself and ask the internet for criticism!

Thank's. I like positive comments too naturally Image Yes maybe I'm brave, but I think I dare because I'm really wanting help. I'm not doing this to show off. I'm just an intermediate player that has the luck to play some gigs sometimes. I know I'm not on the highest end of the spectra and am not trying to compete with anyone. I'm doing this to start a discussion about music and performance and recording technique, and to learn and improve. Hopefully i get even more technical and musical tip.

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Yesterday at 07:14 PMAmateur here posting.

Nice sound.

I always ask myself, "What makes the trombone unique and how can I express that uniqueness?" To my ears, your legato play sounds like it could have been from a French horn. So why play a trombone, then. Why not play a valved instrument. I know this is a classical piece and not a jazz piece. And yet I wanted to hear some trombone sounds. As suggested above, perhaps connect some notes here and there with slide movements, cross-grain and natural slurs so that it is clearly a trombone playing. But if that is allowed, it has to be done subtly and tastefully - given the nature of the piece.

Right you are. It could be more natural slurs.

QuoteIt's been said that a trombone is the closest musical instrument to the human voice. How would a vocalist have sung that song? Perhaps vary the articulation? I pretty much heard the same style of articulation throughout the piece. Even in a classical piece, isn't it okay to accent notes in a variety of ways. And perhaps glide a little wee bit into notes - as vocalists are prone to do? Or are classical singers not allowed to do that?

I did experiment with phrasing and recorded several variants as a way to decide how to proceed. I tried to incorporate the bass line which goes "looong-short-loong-short-loong-short" and so on. This had me play the first to half notes together and then lift before the third. It works to play like that too and then the piece gets another character. I did decide to NOT do it in the end, because of how the lyrics are. Maybe some of that could be kept in the phrasing - and I tried - if I was using more micro-dynamics within a bar I could get that motion by emphasize the first and the third notes, but it must be VERY subtle, and it is exactly these things that makes this to a very difficult piece.
 
QuoteI believe every song should have style. I would characterize your style in that song to be flat or neutral. Okay, I guess that is also a style as well, but I like to hear a style move off of neutral at least just a bit. Do classical pieces of this nature have to be played so stylistically flat; so technically perfect? Where are the elements that no composer can musically notate?

Yes, but it is about death as I believe and then you are face down flat  Image No, I do understand. You want MORE emotions and I'm not getting through to you, not touching your soul? Yes? More sorrow perhaps. I will think of that.

"Where are the elements that no composer can musically notate?" - I would say this is micro-dynamics and tiny rubatos, and articulation. They are there, but maybe I could do more.

QuoteIt was pretty, though. But I think it could have more trombone "presence".

...my two cents as an amateur not at all knowledgeable about classical works.

...Geezer

Thank's Geezer

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Yesterday at 07:42 PMI have commented on your previous ones, not sure if my comments were helpful or not, so please feel free to tell me if they are not.

I hope I gave you feedback on other comments. I find them very helpful. You have good ears!   

QuoteFrom my memory of previous recordings you have shared, this one, I believe is superior in every way.

...and good memory  Image

QuoteWhat I enjoyed, was hearing you keep a consistent quality of sound across the register. When you played loud, I think everything lined up well for you, the articulations were clear, the sound was level and consistent and the legato felt like it had flow and direction.

Thank's this was exactly what I'm trying to improve, so you are spot on what I'm working at.

QuoteThere were a few areas I think you could address. Your softer playing stands out as being noticably weaker than your louder playing. Longer notes in the soft dynamics tended to consistently "waver" in both sound and pitch. It was as though you were battling to play at a soft dynamic that was just out of your comfort zone. Make sure your air stays steady in soft dynamics, and dont be afraid to really blow through your slurs. It wasn't so present when you played loud, but a lot of your legato playing at the soft dymamic suffered from "bulges" in the sound. Consistent airflow and making sure your slurs are supported with air should fix that. I would practice those soft passages loud, because it seems a lot of those issues are not present in your loud playing.

Yes, the piece starts of in pp, and I do find it harder to play. In fact all extremes, and I did play as soft as I possibly dared. The mic is 20 cm from the bell and right in front. Every sound is picked up, not an excuse but a fact. I do feel more confident in the end when dynamics rises from p to mf-f. It is heard. The nature of the piece is "with-held". That is in the composition.   

What does "bulges" mean? I've heard it before, but I'm not quite sure what that means exactly, and exactly where they are heard.

QuotePlay the same phrase over and over, dropping a dynamic each time, but keeping the energy and good qualities you get from when you play loud all the way down to the soft dynamic you need. (It goes without saying, but I am not referring to your use of vibrato, just to be clear).

To get help, advice like this is what my recordings are about. Thank you. You defined a problem and also suggested a method to straighten it out. Thank you. Will do!

QuoteA couple of other smaller issues,
There were a few times where it sounded like you stagnated a bit in you musical phrasing. The piano sounds as though at times (mainly at the beginning when its soft) that it is dragging you along. You can use rubato of course, but make sure that there is direction and flow to what you are doing. Listen back to your loud section towards the end, perhaps try to incorporate some of how you approached that musically into the soft section.

Yes the piano IS in fact dragging me along because it is on a CD. I've tried my best to incorporate the rubatos from the piano-player, because they are there all the time and is annoying because it is not me that is in charge. This is a big drawback with a play-a-long. First time the theme is played it is slower and more hesitant and then the second time it gets faster, and it is not exactly like that I would like it, but it just means I have to get used. I noticed this piece does NOT forgive any "rushing", with this I mean NO early entries, but in fact I was not as much disturbed by the few late entries. I think the late entries belongs to the calm nature of the piece and an early entry destroys that feeling completely. A more lively piece could be different.     

QuoteThe last point I noticed was that whilst your pitch was good most of the time, as i mentioned, I think it waivered a bit at the beginning because your airflow was not consistent, but to my ear the very last note fell quite flat towards the end. You articulated it well, but its almost as though you gave up on the note before you stopped playing it. Keep the energy and intent all the way up to when you stop playing, that should sort out the pitch.

Hope there is stuff you can take away from my comments. Lots of great things, thanks for sharing!

Yes, the ending is a bit flat in the end but I hear a few other spots that also are out of tune. Not much but more. I think it is more desturbing because it is the end note.

Thank's to all so far...

/Tom


ttf_Geezerhorn
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Welcome to hear my latest recording project.

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn »

I for one can totally appreciate what you are doing, Tom. It is not easy to get a good, clean recording at home. And if you are recording yourself with the mic in very close proximity to the bell, it is tough to get a wide range of dynamics coming through without distortion or other consequences.

Knowing you can actually play in a wider range of dynamics than the mic can pick up, you might consider this. Adjust the gain on various parts of your solo track to your liking after you have recorded yourself. That way, you can get a greater contrast and actually achieve pianissimo through fortissimo without distortion. It's not cheating. You can do it in real time without a mic, so you are just compensating for the limitations of the mic after the recording is made. It's as legitimate as running your recording through a low filter or a high filter to take out stray mic sounds.

Keep on recording yourself. I think it's terrific! I'm a big fan of yours and you are handling the comments very gracefully!  Image

...Geezer
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Welcome to hear my latest recording project.

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn »

I for one can totally appreciate what you are doing, Tom. It is not easy to get a good, clean recording at home. And if you are recording yourself with the mic in very close proximity to the bell, it is tough to get a wide range of dynamics coming through without distortion or other consequences.

Knowing you can actually play in a wider range of dynamics than the mic can pick up, you might consider this. Adjust the gain on various parts of your solo track to your liking after you have recorded yourself. That way, you can get a greater contrast and actually achieve pianissimo through fortissimo without distortion. It's not cheating. You can do it in real time without a mic, so you are just compensating for the limitations of the mic after the recording is made. It's as legitimate as running your recording through a low filter or a high filter to take out stray mic sounds.

Keep on recording yourself. I think it's terrific! I'm a big fan of yours and you are handling the comments very gracefully!  Image

...Geezer
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