Learning to Double on the Bass Trombone

[ttf_TromboneConcerto]

Hello all,

I'm back home for the summer, and besides doing basic military training, I will have nothing but time to practice! I took home a bass from my school's instrument library- a Yamaha YBL-612R.

I was wondering if any of you had experience learning how to double on bass. I want to pull together some good bass chops without messing with my tenor chops... Does anyone have any tips?

What mouthpiece size should I use? I'm using a DE N102 (Bach 4) on my tenor, and the bass came with a 1 1/2. Is that good?

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Kyle

[ttf_BGuttman]

1 1/2 G is a good size bass mouthpiece.  Most of us start there.

You need to practice both bass and tenor on the same day.  Practice your similar exercises, but try down an octave or tenor clef down an octave.  When I was learning I used a trumpet method read as bass clef (basically goes from low B to D above the staff).

Good luck.

[ttf_hyperbolica]

I'm sure other people will have different answers for you, but for me, learning to double has been difficult. If what you want to do is just play some low Ds and Cs, that's easy enough. But if you're aiming to have the same kind of facility on bass down to say pedal F that you have on tenor, it's gonna take a lot of practice and your chops may get confused. I'd advocate getting a teacher who specializes in doubling (if thats not a contradiction) to help you make sense of it all.

For me the whole air column is different between bass and tenor. A couple weeks on bass and I lose the brilliance in my tenor sound. I'm using a DE 104 on everything - from a C on small tenor to J on bass. 1 1/2 G is not a bad size, but you might also try to see if you can get good results on a 2g, which will affect your tenor chops less.

I obviously haven't found the answer for myself yet, and am still exploring with dual bore slides (547/562) combined with the smaller mouthpieces might allow me to get close enough to bass playing without screwing my tenor chops. Some people can switch without a second thought. But not everyone is like that. Practice (on both), good direction (teacher), and equipment that suits you are the keys.

[ttf_schlitzbeer]

Start with Remingtons, Rochut I, and maybe some Blazhevich. Start on tenor, and then play the same exercises down the octave on the bass. The 612R is a nice horn. Try using one valve first, and then try adding the second. Get a hand brace. I bought a neotech for my 612, but I'm concentrating more on playing a single valve Olds P22. Don't go gangbusters on it. But try to up it gradually. Maybe 90 minutes a horn initially. Make sure your diet and water intake is appropriate. Ya gotta do that military stuff too. Good luck, have fun.

[ttf_anonymous]

Do everything you do on your tenor on your bass and vise versa. Have both set up at all times so that you start to get used to the fact that they're so different yet so freakishly similar. Large bore tenors are just small single trigger basses... Just make sure your facility is being carried through on both all the time.

[ttf_kbiggs]

I'm a doubler. I've played bass primarily for the past 10 or so years with occasional forays into tenor territory, and primarly tenor before that even though I considered myself a bass player. Your equipment is fine. Learn to work with it.

Tenor and bass are both trombones, but they are approached somewhat differently. For production, it's helpful to think of larger quantities of warm air than you're used to when playing tenor. Go for a consistent tone and attacks throughout your range. Long tones, slurs, flexibilities, scales--lots of them.

There are many different bass trombone technique books. See yeodoug.com for a list of repertoire and exercise books. Some of my favorites are the Paul Faulise books for drills, Lew Gillis, and Alan Ostrander.

For the Rochut books, practice them in several different clefs: bass clef as written, bass clef down one octave, and if you can, down two octaves. Play them in tenor clef as written, down one octave, and down two octaves if possible. Play each version musically. If you can only play 1/2 page for each clef transposition, that fine. It's important to develop facility throughout the range of the instrument.

See also see this link: http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,86749.msg1091038.html#msg1091038

Other than that, have time, patience and persistence.

[ttf_Ellrod]

After several years of doubling on bass, I took some lessons with a local pro over the course of a summer. Helped a lot.

[ttf_gregs70]

I played a .547 bore with a 5G as my only horn for years.  I lucked into a Holton TR180 with 1 1/2G.  I had used the King as a bass before so I had an advantage going in.  My primary horn now is a 3B/Bach 7 combo.  I never play both horns on the same day, which is the opposite of what some others have said.  Are they wrong, or am I?  Who knows.  Find what works for YOU!  At one time I played lead lead in a big band and covered the French horn part on a brass quintet, while playing bass in a community band and subbing as bass elsewhere.  I am so glad I am a doubler. 

[ttf_gregs70]

I played a .547 bore with a 5G as my only horn for years.  I lucked into a Holton TR180 with 1 1/2G.  I had used the King as a bass before so I had an advantage going in.  My primary horn now is a 3B/Bach 7 combo.  I never play both horns on the same day, which is the opposite of what some others have said.  Are they wrong, or am I?  Who knows.  Find what works for YOU!  At one time I played lead lead in a big band and covered the French horn part on a brass quintet, while playing bass in a community band and subbing as bass elsewhere.  I am so glad I am a doubler.