8:15 means 8:15, dammit!

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:04 pm

When life was short and every minute counted...

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:16 pm

Interesting Wiki-tidbit as I read about the conductor, Emil Pauer...

"Paur was considered a serious conductor, favouring the works of Johannes Brahms, which were at the time considered heavy listening."

Also, according to Wikipedia, he got married at the age of 7.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:25 pm

Must have been quite a concert with the composer performing his own concerto. Also a premiere of a new work by him.

A rare thing nowadays, what with royalties and all.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:38 pm

I laughed out loud when I saw "precisely." That's exactly how I feel at every gig, and they almost always start late! Grrrrr.

ttf_keybone · Post by **ttf_keybone** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:52 pm

My high school band director used to stare at the clock and wait for the second hand to get to 12 when we approached call time. He would then quickly turn around and if we weren't seated and ready to play, the drum major would start giving demerits! Good times!

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:37 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 11, 2017, 12:25PMMust have been quite a concert with the composer performing his own concerto. Also a premiere of a new work by him.

A rare thing nowadays, what with royalties and all.

I bet actual royalties would be small portion of whole commission cost and royalties are negotiable in a newly commissioned work. When my college commissioned an oratorio from Charles Wourinen

the contract gave it the right to perform the work without further payment, "in perpetuity". That was probably safe for him to give away since the work will never be performed again, not before perpetuity is over.

I think the real problem is that those who can, play... and those who can't, compose.

The age of the composer/performer has gone. I can't think of any significant current composers who are significant performers. Are there any? Listening to most new concertos I get the sense that the composer doesn't play an instrument.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:56 pm

I have some St. Louis Symphony programs from the early 20th century; there's a note about the concerts beginning "promptly" at 8:15 pm.

I wonder what was special about 8:15 pm?

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:11 am

Quote from: JohnL on Apr 11, 2017, 02:56PMI have some St. Louis Symphony programs from the early 20th century; there's a note about the concerts beginning "promptly" at 8:15 pm.

I wonder what was special about 8:15 pm?

Yeah, it seems like a big tradition. The Dallas Symphony had 8:15 until a few years ago also.

Something to do with restaurants? Unions? Free parking hours?

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:53 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 12, 2017, 12:11AMYeah, it seems like a big tradition. The Dallas Symphony had 8:15 until a few years ago also.

Something to do with restaurants? Unions? Free parking hours?

Maybe musicians, and other scene workers should be on their place 8 and then there is a little buffer before it starts 8.15? Precisely.

I think people was more precisely before. In my work place I see many comes a little later to meetings.

Leif

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:45 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 12, 2017, 12:11AMYeah, it seems like a big tradition. The Dallas Symphony had 8:15 until a few years ago also.

Something to do with restaurants? Unions? Free parking hours?

Maybe train schedules?

ttf_slide advantage · Post by **ttf_slide advantage** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:58 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 11, 2017, 12:04PMWhen life was short and every minute counted...

If the Indian suite was written with Native Americans in mind, I'd say that by today's standards, his liner notes are very much politically incorrect.

Savage?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:20 am

Quote from: slide advantage on Apr 12, 2017, 07:58AMIf the Indian suite was written with Native Americans in mind, I'd say that by today's standards, his liner notes are very much politically incorrect.

Savage?

Remember, in only 20 years some really PC-incorrect subtitles were applied to Henry Fillmore's Trombone Family as well. It was a different time.

Interesting that back then concerts started at 8:15 and nowadays they supposedly start at 8 and often don't start till 8:15.

There were no unions to speak of at the time; the AFM was founded in 1898 and didn't represent Boston until the 1920s (Eugene Adam was fired as Principal Trombone for participating in a 1919 strike).

ttf_Andrew Meronek · Post by **ttf_Andrew Meronek** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:06 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 11, 2017, 02:37PMThe age of the composer/performer has gone. I can't think of any significant current composers who are significant performers. Are there any? Listening to most new concertos I get the sense that the composer doesn't play an instrument.

I just saw a trombonist composer at the ATW about a month ago, Mark Hetzler.

ttf_oslide · Post by **ttf_oslide** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:23 am

This is probably due, or related, to the old (European) tradition of the 'academic quarter'.

The following lines are taken from a Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_quarter_%28class_timing%29):

"An academic quarter (German: Akademisches Viertel, Swedish: akademisk kvart (ak or aq)) is the quarter-hour (15 minute) discrepancy between the defined start time for a lecture or lesson ("per schema") and the actual starting time, at some universities in Austria, Switzerland, Estonia, Finland, Romania, Belgium, Croatia, Slovenia, Germany, The Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Poland, Sweden, Serbia, Italy, Israel, Hungary, Greece, and the UK. The quarter system dates back to the days when the ringing of the church bell was the general method of time keeping. When the bell rang on the hour, students had 15 minutes to get to the lecture. Thus a lecture with a defined start time of 10:00 would start at 10:15. Academic quarter exists to a varying extent in many universities, especially where the campus is spread out over a larger area, necessitating the need for fifteen minutes for the students to walk from one building to another between classes. In the German university system, lectures scheduled at a certain hour, with or without the addition "c.t." (cum tempore, Latin for "with time"), usually start 15 minutes after the full hour. If this is not the case, usually "s.t." (sine tempore, Latin for "without time") is added to indicate that the lecture will begin at the exact time."

Probably (that's my guess) such a tradition lead to confusion when a start time was given without specifying "c.t." or "s.t.", or when scholarly persons applied it outside of the academic world, taking the liberty always to be late by 15 minutes, anywhere.

"8:15 precisely" establishes clarity in this regard.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:18 pm

Quote from: oslide on Apr 12, 2017, 10:23AMThis is probably due, or related, to the old (European) tradition of the 'academic quarter'...

That is a plausible explanation.

ttf_Max Croot · Post by **ttf_Max Croot** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:11 am

Hi I think that the upper classes used to arrive late on purpose just to be seen. There in nothing more annoying both for the conductor and the musicians and also to the patrons already seated to have to stand up to let people get to their seats, so they gave them 15 mins to get settled.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:42 pm

Robert,

Am I missing something? Or is this some sort of an inside joke?

Was there originally a link or some other sort of reference that all these folks are responding to that has disappeared from what is now a blank original post?

Who is Pauer and why - since I see no references to him an any of the responding posts - are folks discussing him?

I'm very confused!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:35 pm

The original post contained a picture of a playbill for a concert by the Boston Symphony at the New York Metropolitan Opera House (at the time it was on 39th street). It was conducted by Emil Paur. The item of interest was the use of "8:15 Sharp" as the start time. The concert included two pieces by MacDowell, including a piano concerto in which he played the solo.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:18 pm

Hmmm, the image is still there when I look at it.

It's a Library of Congress image so there shouldn't be a big problem with it.

Try this link

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:20 pm

I wanna see the ad for the salsa gig that says "8:15... or maybe 10:30. Ish. Come whenever."

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:30 pm

Thanks for the link, Robert. It was hard to connect - timed out 3 times before it finally went through. Must be my browser (Mozilla Firefox).

See you at the Met at precisely 8:15pm!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:29 am

Quote from: Posaunus on Apr 15, 2017, 07:30PM,,,
See you at the Met at precisely 8:15pm!

You are still 121 years too late

Not to mention, the Met Opera House on 39th Street doesn't exist any more

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:18 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 16, 2017, 08:29AM

Not to mention, the Met Opera House on 39th Street doesn't exist any more

Incidentally, here's how the old house looked, set up for a recital. They didn't even bother to clear the stage for him.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:18 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 16, 2017, 08:29AM

Not to mention, the Met Opera House on 39th Street doesn't exist any more

Incidentally, here's how the old house looked, set up for a recital. They didn't even bother to clear the stage for him.