Transposing?

[ttf_ronnies]

Quote from: Roscotrombone on Apr 09, 2017, 12:27PMSorry I'm not a hardcore brass bander but I do play for one and in all my years I have never seen a valve trombone being used,not to say that some folk don't but I reckon it's rare.

I think the reason the tenors went to treble was to make it easier for people to change instruments without reading issues, the exception being the bass bone which was in G and too much trouble so stayed in bass. I have come across treble bass bone parts - mental with the ledger lines!

There seems to be a bit of a stooshie about Bb pitch treble for trombone. I played the acrobat many moons ago at school and read the bass side but as been mentioned already the treble side is exactly the same as it was written by a brass band oriented composer and is much loved over here.

I've got a few bass bone pieces where on the other side you get a treble clef saxhorn part which isn't in Bb. You can also buy a lot of the trombone concertos in both bass and treble over here for the brass band players, there's even a brass band degree course in Manchester.

If you think this is all confusing try this.... a lot of the band music I order for school band now come with "world parts" where you get Bb bass clef for trombone/euph/tuba plus a couple of other weird things which are for European bands.

Ross



Likewise in all my years in a brass band I never saw a valve trombone.  In fact I don't think I have ever seen a valve trombone in the flesh.

In our band some of the older tenor parts were in tenor clef.  That used to cause all sorts of confusion for conductors who were "brass band only".

I've never heard of bands that use transposing bass clef.

Ronnie

[ttf_stephenkerry]

Transposing bass clef: some Dutch publishers have them. To be destroyed on sight in my band 

[ttf_Piano man]

Quote from: ronnies on Apr 10, 2017, 06:39AMLikewise in all my years in a brass band I never saw a valve trombone.  In fact I don't think I have ever seen a valve trombone in the flesh.

I'm starting to wish I hadn't mentioned valve trombone. I don't know squat about British brass bands, so that's what I get.

My high school had one--a brass 2B with both a slide and a trombone-style valve section in the silvery alligator coffin case. I wish to hell I had that thing; it was a great horn. I had a chance to buy a similar Getzen horn from an old guy I played with a few years ago but I was trying to be nice and say, "Hey, man, you shouldn't quit playing!" so I turned it down for social reasons. I should have bought it.

We also had a bass trumpet, and for the life of me I can't remember what kind it was. I remember it because I wrote a ballad feature for myself playing it in stage band, but I don't recall especially liking the horn except as a novelty.

The jazz guys at my H.S. occasionally employed the King valve 'bone or bass trumpet as a fun double, but their main role in my little high school was to fill in trombone chairs in the various ensembles when there wasn't a slide player available. One or two of the players might be out of marching or pep band for football or wrestling and we needed someone to cover his part. I know that wasn't uncommon in smaller schools, because I remember going to jazz festivals and seeing other small-school stage bands using valve bone on second or third, and it was probably not for sonic reasons but for the exigency of pressing a baritone player into duty as a half-assed trombonist.

Of course, there's also a currently-revived thread re: "marching trombone", so I swear I didn't imagine this whole thing. I know some bands, maybe not British ones, use valve trombones on parts written for slide trombone, because I saw it happen.

Anyway, my point had nothing to do with valve trombone to begin with. I was trying to explain Bb TC trombone parts, and I think I got it right. For good or ill, the intention is to make doubling easier. I can't imagine any purpose for transposed BC parts.

[ttf_BGuttman]

A Saxhorn band of the mid 19th Century (US Civil War Era) consisted of the following instruments:

Eb soprano
Bb soprano
Eb Alto
Bb Tenor
Bb Baritone
Bb Bass
Eb Tuba

The Tenor, Baritone, and Bass horns were all the same length but different bore sizes.  All had 3 valves except sometimes the tuba had four.

You could swap players on any horn since they looked at the music and pushed the same buttons (even though the Eb horns came out different).  The Eb Tuba read bass clef since the fingerings were still the same.

[ttf_Larry Preston Roberson]

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 10, 2017, 06:24AMActually, learning bass clef transposed to Bb is useful if you are ever called upon to play the tenor tuba parts in some Richard Strauss tone poems.

But as I said, the other ones are (for me) totally useless and confusing to most players as well.
Good point. I'll have to work on it then. Thanks!

[ttf_Larry Preston Roberson]

Quote from: stephenkerry on Apr 10, 2017, 03:02PMTransposing bass clef: some Dutch publishers have them. To be destroyed on sight in my band 

Quote from: Larry Preston Roberson on Apr 03, 2017, 11:04PMJohan de Meij's Symphony No. 1: The Lord of the Rings is one such piece. I played it in high school. It has all four variations ( in C & Bb &  in C & Bb) for trombone 1 and 2; I don't recall the 3rd/bass parts.

[ttf_Larry Preston Roberson]

Quote from: stephenkerry on Apr 10, 2017, 03:02PMTransposing bass clef: some Dutch publishers have them. To be destroyed on sight in my band 

Quote from: Larry Preston Roberson on Apr 03, 2017, 11:04PMJohan de Meij's Symphony No. 1: The Lord of the Rings is one such piece. I played it in high school. It has all four variations ( in C & Bb &  in C & Bb) for trombone 1 and 2; I don't recall the 3rd/bass parts.