Ever burned?

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Fri May 27, 2016 11:22 pm

Anyone have some stories of getting burned on a deal? Obviously, it's easier to get ripped off over the internet, but physical deals count too. Also, what are some great "red flags" of a scam that you've learned amongst your trading or buying endeavors?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:38 am

The "I'm in Jamaica buying this for my sick brother" is a frequent scam. Any deal whete the money is not straight forward or involves something odd like refunding a large money order. If you deal with people who have just joined or have very low post count, you need to be extra careful - not rude, just careful.

I've heard a couple stories of people getting actually scammed here on the forum , but they are reare. I've been buying and selling horns for the past couple of years and the worst I've had was a horn that got damaged in transit. Most folks here are pretty honest.

You can research people on here to make sure that they have a real interest in the instrument and that they have a positive history on the forum. I've made dozens of deals with only two bad experiences, one for $40 someone sold me a cracked lexan rim, and then the damaged horn.

Now if I have any doubt about someone's experience shipping horns, I give them some pointers. Anyway good luck.

ttf_fwbassbone · Post by **ttf_fwbassbone** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:12 am

I've only been burned twice in many years of buying and selling online. Unfortunately one of those situations was here on the Forum. I paid for an Edwards lead pipe and it never arrived. The seller quit communicating with me so I'm out $50. Buyer beware!

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:19 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on May 28, 2016, 06:38AMThe "I'm in Jamaica buying this for my sick brother" is a frequent scam. Any deal whete the money is not straight forward or involves something odd like refunding a large money order. If you deal with people who have just joined or have very low post count, you need to be extra careful - not rude, just careful.

I've heard a couple stories of people getting actually scammed here on the forum , but they are reare. I've been buying and selling horns for the past couple of years and the worst I've had was a horn that got damaged in transit. Most folks here are pretty honest.

You can research people on here to make sure that they have a real interest in the instrument and that they have a positive history on the forum. I've made dozens of deals with only two bad experiences, one for $40 someone sold me a cracked lexan rim, and then the damaged horn.

Now if I have any doubt about someone's experience shipping horns, I give them some pointers. Anyway good luck.
Hmm, interesting. Ood to know most TTF members are honest. Good idea with investigating the "motive" for them to have your horn. Yeah, I always stay away from sales that don't have direst money involved. Do scammers get banned if they're reported to an admin or mod?

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:36 am

As far as I know, all the wind musicians on this gig got ripped off. I was asked to play alto on the concert three separate times and the first time the point of contact immediately started saying he couldn't pay unless I had a Korean work visa, so I said "No thanks".

The second time was from a colleague asking about the same gig. When I told him about the pay problems he admitted that he had never been paid by this director for any past work and he didn't know why he was trying to help him.

The third time was from the director offering more money. Same gig.

Three of my colleagues played on this. Three of my colleagues are out twenty hours of work and didn't get paid. I'll be sure to update if that ever changes. Very sketch.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:02 pm

The worst i have had wasn't really a burn just a minor annoyance.
A fellow forum member put up an ad wanting to do a trade for a mouthpiece they no longer wanted. I was interested and sent a short list of spare pieces i thought they might be interested in trading for. They got back to me saying they wanted to do a direct swap for one Of the pieces i had listed. We agreed to just pay for our own postage at each end.
I received the piece they had sent first with no issue and was very happy with it. Shortly after i received it i got an odd email from the sender saying my mouthpiece had arrived in their country but their post office was asking them to pay to pick it up. They implied this was my fault and had said they refused delivery on the mouthpiece. Because of this they were asking me for money for the one they sent me.

After a few confused back and forth emails i discovered the Issue was that his country had asked him to pay some kind of import tax. I explained this was in no way my fault but when the mouthpiece he had refused delivery returned to me i would re send it to him and undervalue it on the forms so they would not have to deal with whatever payment they were complaining about. This person refused and again asked me to pay for the mouthpiece they had sent me.
I explained i would not send any money until the mouthpiece i had sent to this person arrived back at my house.

Shortly after, I saw this person make a post here to someone else saying they had had an opportunity to try the model of mouthpiece i had sent them and were not interested in that model.

It took months but my mouthpiece arrived back safely, and i did pay this person an agreed price fir the one they sent me. Definitely not a terrible situation, could have been MUCH worse but still irritating, was not expecting to pay money for this deal. I suspect this person tried the mouthpiece i sent decided it wasn't for them and thought they would try get money from me instead. I don't know for sure if that is what happened but i suspect so.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:05 pm

How about the one where the guy was selling some trombone or mouthpiece, I forget, and another forum member responded with, "hey! I'm still waiting for you to pay me for that before you go selling it!"

Crazy, man.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sat May 28, 2016 7:24 pm

Never been burned to the degree that I paid for something that never arrived, but I've been pretty disappointed in what did show up several times.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:18 pm

The only negative experience I've had in nearly 20 years involves a Shires double valve section. I had a few problems with the main tuning slide jamming and it turned out that one end had been cut. I asked the seller about it and he said he had never noticed it. I lived with it until recently when I bought a replacement tuning slide.

Not bad for 20 years.

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Sat May 28, 2016 8:26 pm

Sounds like people on TTF are generally reputable.

ttf_Duffle · Post by **ttf_Duffle** » Sun May 29, 2016 2:00 am

Been burned a few times. One time was through the classifieds here. Won't mention any names as he is a VIP on the forum........

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Sun May 29, 2016 3:35 am

Quote from: Duffle on May 29, 2016, 02:00AMBeen burned a few times. One time was through the classifieds here. Won't mention any names as he is a VIP on the forum........

Oh go on, tell us...

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:29 am

come on then Duff - who that be?

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Sun May 29, 2016 8:05 am

If someone burns others on sales/buys... dropping his/her name is fair play, AFAIC.

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sun May 29, 2016 9:57 am

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on May 29, 2016, 08:05AMIf someone burns others on sales/buys... dropping his/her name is fair play, AFAIC.

amen

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Sun May 29, 2016 10:15 am

And whoever it is can put his side of it, if he wishes.

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Sun May 29, 2016 12:43 pm

I'd be interested to hear as well...

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:44 pm

Not yet but I've recently bought two bones sight unseen, should have one early next week. I'll let you know.

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:37 pm

Alright. Hope you get a good product.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:02 pm

Quote from: leec on Jun 18, 2016, 12:44PMNot yet but I've recently bought two bones sight unseen, should have one early next week. I'll let you know.

Two? I've been out of the loop...

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:06 pm

Not really burned but surprised... buying a Bb Euphonium on eBay and getting an Eb tuba.

https://www.youtube.com/v/9Gf382mMXyw

ttf_Tbonedude · Post by **ttf_Tbonedude** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jun 18, 2016, 05:06PMNot really burned but surprised... buying a Bb Euphonium on eBay and getting an Eb tuba.

I got a similar Ebay surprise last year- I bought a "Baritone Horn" and got the worst little Eb Alto horn I've ever seen or played. It had enough cracks and leaky joints that it would've made a great irrigation device for a garden. At least my wallet didn't take a massive hit.

I bought one of those oval-shaped Baritone horns yesterday, I'm hoping that I got a good deal on a functional instrument... but considering it was made in the USSR in 1961, I don't know what to expect.

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:28 pm

Quote from: Tbonedude on Jun 18, 2016, 05:54PMconsidering it was made in the USSR in 1961, I don't know what to expect.

Solidarity?

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:48 am

Quote from: sonicsilver on Jun 18, 2016, 06:28PMSolidarity?

That was in Poland, dude...

or do they spell it "Polande" in England?

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:59 am

Quote from: Tbonedude on Jun 18, 2016, 05:54PMI bought one of those oval-shaped Baritone horns yesterday, I'm hoping that I got a good deal on a functional instrument... but considering it was made in the USSR in 1961, I don't know what to expect.

Give us a report on that after you get it. I'm curious.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:27 pm

Quote from: Tbonedude on Jun 18, 2016, 05:54PMI bought one of those oval-shaped Baritone horns yesterday, I'm hoping that I got a good deal on a functional instrument... but considering it was made in the USSR in 1961, I don't know what to expect.

"Доверяй, но проверяй {Doveryai, no proveryai} (trust, but verify)

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:50 pm

Quote from: BillO on Jun 18, 2016, 04:02PMTwo? I've been out of the loop...

Hi Bill, The Perfacktone off Ebay for $10 plus shipping and a no-name from Goodwill in London Ont (picked up by a friend who resides there). No ETA on that one yet, oh $40.00 for that one.

The Perfacktone I should have Monday or Tuesday. Ron Partch may be getting more work.

If they don't suit me I can always donate them to Kim's Junior school music classes.

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:13 am

Quote from: Exzaclee on Jun 19, 2016, 08:48AMThat was in Poland, dude...

or do they spell it "Polande" in England?

I'm the wrong person to ask because I'm not English.

Were you trying to pun Poland with Hollande (Francois)?

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:17 pm

I've bought several instruments on E-bay and have had great luck, only one of them was not quite what it was represented to be, and the seller made good. I bought a Sousaphone from on E-bay that supposedly had been checked out by a pro-instrument repair tech, and was supposed to be 100 % playable, and included the neck and bits. When I got the horn the part of the neck that goes into the leadpipe had been cut off with a tubing cutter and badly caved in where is was cut. Both Tuning bits had also been cut off with a tubing cutter as well. I contacted the seller told him the neck and bits were unusable, and I wouldn't give him bad feedback if he refunded the amount required to buy a new neck and tuning bits. He gladly refunded the amount required to buy the new neck and bits, and I didn't give him any feedback positive or negative for that sale.

There was one time in my music career that our band got burned doing a gig for a local club a couple decades ago. We were supposed to play happy hour for a set fee, and then they had a popular nationally known artist coming in later. Since he didn't get the turnout for happy hour he thought he would he decided that there was no set fee negotiated and we were playing for tips (but no tip jar was every put out, and no one let the crowd know we were playing for tips) so we actually got nothing for playing for 2 hours of happy hour with a full 18 piece big band. We learned from that experience to always get it it writing.

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:29 am

Not burned exactly but disappointed. The Perfacktone horn I bought off Ebay, $10 first bid, I should have just sent the seller the $10 but some of us gamble don't we. Shipping was 4x the cost. Anyway it's a horn I will most likely never play, awkward to hold as it's slide heavy and the bell is very close to the slide not giving much finger room. The slide itself is not great although it would improve with more cleaning. What could I expect for $10?

ttf_thetuningslide · Post by **ttf_thetuningslide** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:38 am

Hm, got any pics?Quote from: leec on Jun 24, 2016, 07:29AMNot burned exactly but disappointed. The Perfacktone horn I bought off Ebay, $10 first bid, I should have just sent the seller the $10 but some of us gamble don't we. Shipping was 4x the cost. Anyway it's a horn I will most likely never play, awkward to hold as it's slide heavy and the bell is very close to the slide not giving much finger room. The slide itself is not great although it would improve with more cleaning. What could I expect for $10?

ttf_Davidus1 · Post by **ttf_Davidus1** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:44 pm

Quote from: Tbonedude on Jun 18, 2016, 05:54PMI got a similar Ebay surprise last year- I bought a "Baritone Horn" and got the worst little Eb Alto horn I've ever seen or played. It had enough cracks and leaky joints that it would've made a great irrigation device for a garden. At least my wallet didn't take a massive hit.

I bought one of those oval-shaped Baritone horns yesterday, I'm hoping that I got a good deal on a functional instrument... but considering it was made in the USSR in 1961, I don't know what to expect.

I can relate to this. Sometimes the sellers are not knowledgeable about the horn they are selling so its important to look at the pictures closely and ask questions. Always find out if there is a return option. I'm in the market for a 3B right now and am being careful about what I am going to buy. Best wishes!

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Tue May 16, 2017 5:44 am

Quote from: leec on Jun 18, 2016, 12:44PMNot yet but I've recently bought two bones sight unseen, should have one early next week. I'll let you know.

Just a follow up to this. One horn was a Blessing, came from Goodwill for cheap, I had the slide re-aligned and donated it to a youth band. I did not feel ripped off at all.

The other was an Olds TIS, which also need some slide attention, but is a keeper. Dual bore with balance weight attached to the crook and the funky little bear playing a trombone engraved on the bell.

I did get one off Ebay for a $10 bid plus a lot more shipping which is pretty much unplayable. It's a Czech horn, very small bore. It needs slide work that I'm not willing to invest. I didn't really want it but threw a bid on to get it started. Learned a lesson. It's a Perfactone if any one is interested. Not burned just bad judgement on my part.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue May 16, 2017 6:07 am

Well, I did. Out of stupidity and not making my homework...don't do like me.

I supposedly bought a King 3BF anniversary edition. After googlin all around I found that the trombone in question had only two thing in common with the desired 3BF:

1. It had an F trigger

2. It had an engraving with a font similar to King's.

Other than that, it was large bore, large shank, big bell (8.5 if not mistaken) and a rather heavy (as a feel not as much as a weight per see) hankslide. Overall, it was probably more like a copy of Bach 42 thank anything King like. It is not too bad, but it wasn't worth the money I paid.

I bought it on aliexrpess.com. Another big mistake.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 am

If someone buys something here on the forum and it's misrepresented, or if someone doesn't pay, I think it's absolutely imperative to let others know what is going on. I always strive to accurately depict what's going on with the horns I sell. Sometimes surprises do happen. I sold a stack of music to a person for something like $50. I got paid no problem. The music never arrived. So I issued a full refund and took up the issue with the delivery service. The music still never came...so what can be done? I lost out on the money, but it certainly wasn't the other persons' fault. Sometimes things just happen.

I also got burned one time on the forum and I posted about it. I purchased a Courtois AC440 with Hagmann. What I got was a Courtois bell with a Bach 50 handslide. Not at all what I wanted. The guy turned up in Canada, wouldn't communicate afterward, and disappeared from the forum. Good riddance.

Overall, I still prefer to deal through the forum. Most folks are interested in doing the right thing.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 am

If someone buys something here on the forum and it's misrepresented, or if someone doesn't pay, I think it's absolutely imperative to let others know what is going on. I always strive to accurately depict what's going on with the horns I sell. Sometimes surprises do happen. I sold a stack of music to a person for something like $50. I got paid no problem. The music never arrived. So I issued a full refund and took up the issue with the delivery service. The music still never came...so what can be done? I lost out on the money, but it certainly wasn't the other persons' fault. Sometimes things just happen.

I also got burned one time on the forum and I posted about it. I purchased a Courtois AC440 with Hagmann. What I got was a Courtois bell with a Bach 50 handslide. Not at all what I wanted. The guy turned up in Canada, wouldn't communicate afterward, and disappeared from the forum. Good riddance.

Overall, I still prefer to deal through the forum. Most folks are interested in doing the right thing.