Trying basses?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:40 pm

I've been working on getting enough money for a personal bass, but I have one problem. I have no idea how to go about trying horns. I'm not far from Dallas, but from what I can tell there's not a lot of nearby stores that regularly stock bass bones. For reference, I've been particularly interested in the kanstul basses, and I don't want a heavy horn such as a Shires or anything like that. (It also may be of note that I'm a highschool sophomore.)

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:49 pm

Go to TMEA. Go to any of the other trombone shows that happen around the state. TCU has a great one coming up. Texas State has a great one Post TMEA.

ttf_bassmike · Post by **ttf_bassmike** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 am

https://www.facebook.com/EdwardsHouseTexas/

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:31 am

Ben Osbourne at Edwards House Texas is great too! Anthony Weiss has a Thein House in Austin too.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:27 pm

I'll likely try the Edwards & Thein houses and the TMEA convention but is that it? Thank you for all the help

ttf_Horn Builder · Post by **ttf_Horn Builder** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:40 pm

There are quite a few other manufacturers that are at least worth considering.

M

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:09 pm

Quote from: Horn Builder on Jan 27, 2018, 08:40PMThere are quite a few other manufacturers that are at least worth considering.

M

Like I said I really am liking Kanstul's 1662i but I have no idea where i could try one other than Kanstul's factory

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:08 pm

I can not think of a horn make other than Voight and Laetch (sp) that won’t be at TMEA... what are you wanting to try?
Also my recommendation: give M&W a real shot at TMEA.
Horns that will be at TMEA:
Bach
BAC Custom
B&S
Conn
Courtois
Edwards
John Packer
Getzen
Greenhoe
Kantsul
M&W
Rath
Schilke
Shires
Thein
Wilson
Jupiter
Yamaha
Holton
And I might be missing some.... What more could you want?

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:18 pm

Oh yeah Jupiter!

ttf_MoominDave · Post by **ttf_MoominDave** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:15 am

Holton perhaps?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:23 am

Quote from: MoominDave on Jan 28, 2018, 01:15AMHolton perhaps?

No new Holtons

Wessex Tubas should be there. Probably a couple of other Chinese instrument sellers (the more ethical ones).

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:32 am

I have heard some positive comments about the Yamaha 620g bass, especially if you are looking for a lighter horn.

ttf_MoominDave · Post by **ttf_MoominDave** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:49 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 28, 2018, 05:23AMNo new Holtons

Did they discontinue the TR181 while I wasn't looking?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 am

Quote from: MoominDave on Jan 28, 2018, 05:49AMDid they discontinue the TR181 while I wasn't looking?

Sorry. Yep, the 181 and 183 are still listed. I thought it had been supplanted by the Conn 62HI

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:03 am

Some real good advice here. One question: Have you ever played a Kanstul bass? I only ask because you shouldn't be so tied down to one instrument, particularly if you've never played one! Some instruments are heavier than others but balance is more important in general terms than weight. I would try, as others have mentioned, to visit a conference where many manufacturers will be represented. Depending on how much money you have saved will also dictate what you can purchase so take your time and gather all of the first hand information that you can. Good luck.

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:00 am

Yep add Holton and Yamaha to the list! Not sure about Wessex... they havent come before.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:45 am

Quote from: WayneB on Jan 28, 2018, 05:32AMI have heard some positive comments about the Yamaha 620g bass, especially if you are looking for a lighter horn.
I was looking into the 620g for a while but I decided I use my second trigger too much to get a dependent setup

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:50 am

Also worth noting that in your premise you suggest that Shires horns are heavy --- that can be the case for any of the modular horns or completely the opposite. Shires bells without any additional numbering (e.g. their 1G bell vs. a 1GLW) are heavy as when they started, heavier bells were in vogue. They sell lots of other bells now and many of them are very light. Listen with your ears, not your eyes!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:50 am

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Jan 28, 2018, 06:03AMSome real good advice here. One question: Have you ever played a Kanstul bass? I only ask because you shouldn't be so tied down to one instrument, particularly if you've never played one! Some instruments are heavier than others but balance is more important in general terms than weight. I would try, as others have mentioned, to visit a conference where many manufacturers will be represented. Depending on how much money you have saved will also dictate what you can purchase so take your time and gather all of the first hand information that you can. Good luck.

I've played some on old conns and hear the 1662i is very similar and is based off an elkhart 62h, and compared to the bach 50b3, the holton 181, and the xo 1240 I've played, I found them all too heavy. In my tenor playing I use a getzen and find it very nice which is why I'm so set on a lighter horn

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 am

Quote from: Matt K on Jan 28, 2018, 07:50AMAlso worth noting that in your premise you suggest that Shires horns are heavy --- that can be the case for any of the modular horns or completely the opposite. Shires bells without any additional numbering (e.g. their 1G bell vs. a 1GLW) are heavy as when they started, heavier bells were in vogue. They sell lots of other bells now and many of them are very light. Listen with your ears, not your eyes!

The shires I've tried the trigger was in an unnatural position, and I don't want a boutique horn quite yet. Maybe when I'm in my mid 20s or so

ttf_BackBone · Post by **ttf_BackBone** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:22 am

Quote from: Slavbassbone on Jan 28, 2018, 08:01AM The shires I've tried the trigger was in an unnatural position, and I don't want a boutique horn quite yet. Maybe when I'm in my mid 20s or so

What I think is being said by all that are giving advice is: First find a horn that plays well and sounds good to YOU. Second, if balance and fit - i.e. trigger placements - are a problem, then talk to a tech. A good tech should be able to fit the horn to YOU.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:40 pm

Quote from: Slavbassbone on Jan 28, 2018, 07:50AMI've played some on old conns and hear the 1662i is very similar and is based off an elkhart 62h, and compared to the bach 50b3, the holton 181, and the xo 1240 I've played, I found them all too heavy. In my tenor playing I use a getzen and find it very nice which is why I'm so set on a lighter horn

The 1662i may be inspired by the old Conn 62H but it is nothing like it. I am not saying better or worse, just nothing like.

Chris Stearn

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Quote from: blast on Jan 28, 2018, 01:40PMThe 1662i may be inspired by the old Conn 62H but it is nothing like it. I am not saying better or worse, just nothing like.

Chris Stearn

True, but back to my original topic: are those my main options nearby, and is there another place I should see about taking a trip to that would be an ideal trying environment?

ttf_JP · Post by **ttf_JP** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Because you said you were a sophomore in HS, my advice would be not look at expensive new bass trombones. Look around the ads here and other where for decent used Bachs, Conns, Yamahas, Getzens, Holtons. There are a lot of them. Get something very good and think about trading up in the future. Go to some of the trade shows at brass or trombone festivals, try out lots of things. Talk to teachers and respected pros you know or will know in the future and listen to their suggestions. Many of my HS students have bought terrific older trombones and played them for a long time before deciding to invest in a "brand new instrument".

Now is not the time to find the perfect horn for the rest of your life, just a really good instrument that will serve your needs for a few years. Experience will teach you much more than random comments on this or any other internet forum how to find the "upgrade".

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:25 pm

Quote from: Slavbassbone on Jan 28, 2018, 04:59PMTrue, but back to my original topic: are those my main options nearby, and is there another place I should see about taking a trip to that would be an ideal trying environment?

I don't know what it looks like in Zach's place in Houston, but the best places are in Iselin NJ and Anaheim CA.

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:36 pm

Are you going to TMEA? Did you see the list of stuff there? I dont know what else you expect...

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:11 pm

Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Jan 28, 2018, 06:36PMAre you going to TMEA? Did you see the list of stuff there? I dont know what else you expect...
Yeah... If you can't find an instrument at TMEA you like yiu probably won't ever find one

ttf_EWadie99 · Post by **ttf_EWadie99** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:46 pm

I agree with JP, there really is nothing wrong with buying an older used horn. Also, you can go to the TMEA to get an idea what you want and maybe you could find the same horn used for a good price. Also yes, experience is what will get you your upgrade and that will fit your needs. Good luck!

ttf_Jonathantuba · Post by **ttf_Jonathantuba** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:52 pm

Wessex will be at TMEA with the new Stearn bass trombone - booth 161-163

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:32 am

Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Jan 28, 2018, 06:36PMAre you going to TMEA? Did you see the list of stuff there? I dont know what else you expect...

I wasn't sure the exhibits would have basses, and another issue is that I'm missing school so I dont know how likely it is I go

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:32 am

Quote from: Slavbassbone on Jan 29, 2018, 03:32AMand another issue is that I'm missing school so I dont know how likely it is I go

Unless you go on Saturday, Feb 17.

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:35 am

I literally listed everyone with basses..,, outside of ITF this is the biggest show in terms of trombones available.
If you really want to try out horns you will try and make it. Like Dan said... it is open on Saturday.

ttf_GetzenBassPlayer · Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:23 am

Unfortunately, buying a musical instrument is not like buying a car. If you arent lucky enough to have friends and colleagues who have horns to try out, you have to hit one of the big conventions.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:00 pm

Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Jan 29, 2018, 07:35AMI literally listed everyone with basses..,, outside of ITF this is the biggest show in terms of trombones available.
If you really want to try out horns you will try and make it. Like Dan said... it is open on Saturday.

Then hopefully I can.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:07 pm

Quote from: Slavbassbone on Jan 29, 2018, 12:00PMThen hopefully I can.

If it doesn't work out, I recommend taking JP's advice above. Don't get wrapped up in which instrument you buy so long as it's a reputable brand in good condition. Holton, Bach, Conn, Yamaha, etc. Buy one in your budget and get to practicing.

ttf_John Thomas · Post by **ttf_John Thomas** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:46 pm

High school students are not allowed to register to go into the TMEA exhibits unless they are a All-State band/orchestra member or performing band/orchestra participant until Saturday. The only exception is for children/students of TMEA members attending the convention with their family.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:59 am

Quote from: John Thomas on Jan 29, 2018, 10:46PMHigh school students are not allowed to register to go into the TMEA exhibits unless they are a All-State band/orchestra member or performing band/orchestra participant until Saturday. The only exception is for children/students of TMEA members attending the convention with their family.
Thankfully I think my family figured something out instead for when our band goes to Indianapolis for the music for all festival

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:50 am

Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Jan 27, 2018, 10:08PM
And I might be missing some.... What more could you want?

Perhaps, " XO Professional Brass." They have some pretty good Pro Artists listed on their sie.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:25 am

Quote from: WayneB on Jan 30, 2018, 04:50AMPerhaps, " XO Professional Brass." They have some pretty good Pro Artists listed on their sie.

Would they not be part of the Jupiter booth?

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:37 am

Yeah I include XO with Jupiter in my mind!
What school does the OP go too? I am going to be at MFA with my wifes orchestra this year! They are doing Mahler 2 first movement and it is up to me to coach the brass!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:00 pm

Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Jan 30, 2018, 07:37AMYeah I include XO with Jupiter in my mind!
What school does the OP go too? I am going to be at MFA with my wifes orchestra this year! They are doing Mahler 2 first movement and it is up to me to coach the brass!
Parkway HS

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:08 pm

Just to let everyone know, I'm pleased to announce that I found a Conn 62h (the new ,dependent one) and have bought it. Thanks to everyone for the help, but now I have to get to practicing and getting used to my new ax

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:16 am

Quote from: Dan Hine on Jan 30, 2018, 07:25AMWould they not be part of the Jupiter booth?

For the folks who play XO models they prefer NOT to be associated with Jupiter. They feel like Jupiter makes school horns and XO is a "Professional" line. In my mind it's just smoke and mirrors. They're made by Jupiter correct? Or not?

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 am

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Feb 01, 2018, 06:16AMFor the folks who play XO models they prefer NOT to be associated with Jupiter. They feel like Jupiter makes school horns and XO is a "Professional" line. In my mind it's just smoke and mirrors. They're made by Jupiter correct? Or not?

They appear to be a separate brand under KHS. But who knows? Regardless, I would imagine the booths would be connected, probably under the KHS banner, much like Courtois trombones tend to be found in the Buffet Crampon booth.

I can understand their artists wanting to ensure there is a distinction. Jupiter was around long before XO and built a reputation that wasn't exactly sterling. So now they want to call attention to the fact that they make good instruments. Not any different than Genesis branding itself as a separate company (used to be a model, the Hyundai Genesis).

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:07 am

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Feb 01, 2018, 06:16AMFor the folks who play XO models they prefer NOT to be associated with Jupiter. They feel like Jupiter makes school horns and XO is a "Professional" line. In my mind it's just smoke and mirrors.Pretty standard marketing approach. If and when "XO" develops are large enough following, they will probably start trying to leverage XO's reputation to elevate the perception of Jupiter.

"Jupiter by XO", anyone?

ttf_John Thomas · Post by **ttf_John Thomas** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:42 am

Toyota-Lexus
Honda-Accura
Nissan-Infiniti
Ford--Lincoln Mercury
Chevy-GMC-Buick-etc.
Dodge-Chrysler

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Quote from: John Thomas on Feb 01, 2018, 11:42AMToyota-Lexus
Honda-Accura
Nissan-Infiniti
Ford--Lincoln Mercury
Chevy-GMC-Buick-etc.
Dodge-ChryslerThe parallel isn't quite perfect in some cases (Lincoln and Dodge began as independent companies), but that is the general idea.

ttf_Bach42T · Post by **ttf_Bach42T** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:56 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Feb 01, 2018, 06:29AMThey appear to be a separate brand under KHS. But who knows? Regardless, I would imagine the booths would be connected, probably under the KHS banner, much like Courtois trombones tend to be found in the Buffet Crampon booth.

I can understand their artists wanting to ensure there is a distinction. Jupiter was around long before XO and built a reputation that wasn't exactly sterling. So now they want to call attention to the fact that they make good instruments. Not any different than Genesis branding itself as a separate company (used to be a model, the Hyundai Genesis).

Pretty interesting to note, on the back of my Jupiter 80 synthesizer is a label: "JUPITER" is a registered trademark of and is licensed by K.H.S. MUSICAL INSTRUMENT CO. LTD. in the United States and other countries."

ttf_Bach42T · Post by **ttf_Bach42T** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:56 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Feb 01, 2018, 06:29AMThey appear to be a separate brand under KHS. But who knows? Regardless, I would imagine the booths would be connected, probably under the KHS banner, much like Courtois trombones tend to be found in the Buffet Crampon booth.

I can understand their artists wanting to ensure there is a distinction. Jupiter was around long before XO and built a reputation that wasn't exactly sterling. So now they want to call attention to the fact that they make good instruments. Not any different than Genesis branding itself as a separate company (used to be a model, the Hyundai Genesis).

Pretty interesting to note, on the back of my Jupiter 80 synthesizer is a label: "JUPITER" is a registered trademark of and is licensed by K.H.S. MUSICAL INSTRUMENT CO. LTD. in the United States and other countries."