Help please?

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:08 pm

After lots of experimentation and practice, I've been able to develop my playing drastically from when my marching season ended. However, as All State auditions are day after tomorrow, I really need some clarification on something. I notice that sometimes when I pick the horn up and try playing, I get vibration but when I tongue it seems very prominent and gets in the way of my tone. Then there are times when my lips appear larger(possibly swollen?) and I'm able to play with much less muscular effort and I'm able to produce much more resonance. The times when I feel my tongue is prominent, I feel that I have to firm my embouchure up more in order to get vibration. Could my mouthpiece, a Shilke 51 D, also be a factor? I just don't know if I should rely on my lips being slightly larger and fuller in order to play the instrument? Because when it is in this state, typically, vibration comes much more easily and I can focus more on my air.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:23 pm

I think I understand what you are describing. When you feel like you lips are swollen, it's probably when you're warmed up enough that they are softer and can vibrate easily. When you first start playing your lips are dry and firm and they don't want to vibrate. They gradually loosen up as you play and everything works better. That's really pretty normal, but it can be partly due to the mouthpiece being small for you. A larger mouthpiece gives you more vibrating surface so it is easier to get going.

Warm up more gradually and accept the fact that it's just the way it is for now. Maybe after your audition you can check out some other mouthpieces.

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:04 pm

Thank you so much for the response. I'll try and look into it following my audition. When I'm warmed up, playing comes relatively easily and my sound and everything becomes a lot easier. I was getting pretty frustrated when I couldn't pinpoint why exactly things which worked the day before were not feeling or sounding the same as the following day. Recently however, I figured that the size of lips had quite a profound impact on my playing. If you remember my older posts, it took a lot of time to get where I am now, but with a good audition, being tomorrow, my chances of making state are looking pretty reasonable. Also, is a 51D Shilke mouthpiece considered large? What would an appropriate step up be, as I am an intermediate high school trombonist?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:44 pm

I would look a little larger in rim. 51D is relatively deep, but the rim is 1.01 inches like a Bach 5G. I'd look into the next larger size: Schilke or Yamaha 52, Bach 4G, Wick 4B or 4A. If you still want something deep, there is the 52D and 52E. Wick 4AL has a large aperture and a deeper cup than the 4B. The Wick 4AL and Schilke 52E make great Euphonium mouthpieces.

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:05 pm

Okay, thanks. All-state auditions are over, so I can really try experimenting with some larger mouthpieces. I found that I can buzz and play lower with significantly much more ease on a tuba mouthpiece, but with like a smaller mouthpiece, I have to really tighten my embouchure in order to produce tone and playing low is almost impossible.

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:16 pm

You know, I was just reading a post on how larger mouthpieces could equal better range for some embouchure. In all honesty this might be the same scenario for me. It's so unusual. On my 51d Shilke mouthpiece, I can play the false tone pedals without many problems, but in order for me to play regular pedals, I have to lower the mouthpiece. And even then, it's really not very full sounding. But when I tried a tuba mouthpiece on the large bore trombone, playing those pedals on the instrument came way easier and really wasn't a problem. Is this a sign that a larger mouthpiece would probably fit my face a little better for playing through the entire range of the instrument?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:37 pm

How was your upper range with the tuba mouthpiece?

Going larger ALWAYS helps things like pedal tones and even double pedal tones. The question is whether a larger mouthpiece than your 51D would help your upper register.

Do you think you can borrow a smallish bass trombone mouthpiece like a 1 1/2 G or 2G for a test?

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:15 pm

Honestly, the high notes feel about the same. I can give a more firm answer, once I meet with my private teacher and do some experimentation. For me, if anything, I feel that a larger mouthpiece would give me more freedom to play higher as it prevents me from tightening too much with my embouchure. Buzzing high on the tuba mouthpiece doesn't feel too hard, but I don't know how that translates on the trombone.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:41 pm

I dont play the largest mouthpiece available, but mine is on the larger side and I find range in both directions a lot easier than on a smaller pieces. Im not sure what it is exactly, but I feel like in my bigger piece I can use parts of my face that make high register easier and more resonant. I spent a few months a couple of years ago messing around with a smallish thein bass piece (the BVD model) and it had a lot of great things about it, but high and low registers were a lot more work just because I felt like I had less of my face to use than what felt neccesary.

I also find legato playing a lot harder on smaller pieces... I have no idea why.

My long and useless story is just really to say that you shouldnt shy away from experimentation in your practice. If something makes player easier explore why! Ask yourself what if anything, gets worse in your experiments and how and why something else improves. Dont shy away from playing a big mouthpiece just because its a "big mouthpiece". Just practice honestly and critically.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:35 am

Have a Skype consultation with Doug Elliott

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:16 pm

Good news, I made third chair all state for my state. It's been a long journey to get to where I am right now, but still looking to get better. I might try out the Denis Wick Heritage trombone mouthpiece soon and see how it works for me.

ttf_Georgilocks · Post by **ttf_Georgilocks** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:16 pm

Good news, I made third chair all state for my state. It's been a long journey to get to where I am right now, but still looking to get better. I might try out the Denis Wick Heritage trombone mouthpiece soon and see how it works for me.