Some advices for mouthpiece ?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:22 pm

Hello

I have some difficulties to find a mouthpiece that is really good for me.
I play on small bore horns, and actually I have 3 mouthpieces :

* A Bach 6 1/2AL : This one is very soft, I like the sound it produce, it is not tiring, but it's difficult to play in high register with it I think due to the big cup.
* An old Yamaha 47 : Heavier than the new ones. I almost like it but it's more tiring and painful to play with it and I have sensation it produce some feedback that is not easy to play in low register (I think due to his little cup). But high notes are brilliant as I like.
* A recent Yamaha 47 : The cup seems a little bit bigger than the old one, but the metal seems not as good, and I not really like sound I have with it. Furthermore I find the edge sharper.

Do you have some suggests ?

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Bach 7C is a smaller but good alternative to the 6.5al

ttf_modelerdc · Post by **ttf_modelerdc** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:31 pm

Looks like you're playing a small bore horn. Here's a few to try: Yamaha 48-can be found cheap, fuller sound than 47, but slightly smaller and more focused than the 6 1/2 AL. Also consider a Bach 6 1/2 AM small shank, harder to find but better focus than the AL.

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:34 am

Thanks for your feedback.

Except cup diameter, what are the differences beetween Yammy 48 and Yammy Nils Landgren ?
The 2nd seems to be heavier ?

And whats are the differences between Schilke 47 and Yammy 47 ? (It seems they doesn't have a Schilke 48). Is schilke mouthpieces usually better than Yam's ?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 am

Schilke and Yamaha sizes are very similar (not a surprise since Schilke was a consultant for Yamaha for a while). The Schilke 50 and Yamaha 48 are the same size. I believe it's the only pair where the numbers are deliberately different.

ttf_sirisobhakya · Post by **ttf_sirisobhakya** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:33 pm

Quote from: roadyrod on Jan 17, 2018, 06:34AMThanks for your feedback.

Except cup diameter, what are the differences beetween Yammy 48 and Yammy Nils Landgren ?
The 2nd seems to be heavier ?

From Yamaha's own spec sheet:

Yamaha 48
Rim Diameter - 25.25mm (0.9941")
Rim Contour - Standard
Rim Thickness - Standard
Cup Depth - Standard
Throat - 6.62mm (0.2606")
Backbore - Semi-Narrow

Nils Landgren
Rim Diameter - 25.11mm (0.9886")
Rim Contour - Semi-Flat
Rim Thickness - Semi-Thin
Cup Depth - Standard
Throat - 6.25mm (0.2461")
Backbore - Semi-Narrow

To sum up: slightly smaller diameter, flatter and thinner rim, and smaller throat. Looks like more solo-oriented. The shape is not that different from standard mouthpiece, so I doubt there is any drastic difference in mass.

Oh, and about $40 difference in listed price

.

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Quote from: sirisobhakya on Jan 17, 2018, 03:33PMOh, and about $40 difference in listed price

.
12 in my shop, but I agree with that

Like a lot of "signatures" !

And what do you think about a wick like that ?
Same size than the 6 1/2AL but maybe a less deep cup and more centered sound ?

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:20 pm

Look at Doug Elliott you can get the rim size that suits your chops, and alter the cup depth to fit your needs.... IMHO you should contact Doug and work with him to get great advice and the right mouthpiece for you...save you dollars time and pain !!

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:07 am

But a mouthpiece won't really be much of a factor if, as I think you said, almost all of your practice is with a practice mute. That is what I'd try to fix first -- how to get 100% of your practice time on an open horn with no mute. Then you'll be able to really tell what mouthpieces are working for you.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:59 am

If you like the 6.5AL try a DW 9BS. It's a similar size but has a slightly more focused sound and speaks well in the upper register.

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:30 am

Thanks.

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jan 18, 2018, 05:07AMBut a mouthpiece won't really be much of a factor if, as I think you said, almost all of your practice is with a practice mute. That is what I'd try to fix first -- how to get 100% of your practice time on an open horn with no mute. Then you'll be able to really tell what mouthpieces are working for you.

Oh no, most of my practice and playing is open, and my neighboors are pretty tolerant for now.
But sometimes I can't play a lot before 8 PM and in this case a practice mute is useful.

Quote from: Pre59 on Jan 18, 2018, 05:59AMIf you like the 6.5AL try a DW 9BS. It's a similar size but has a slightly more focused sound and speaks well in the upper register.
I like it because I can articulate easy but I can't get high notes as powerful as I like. What I like with this one is I had sensation I can't break my lips with it, that is not right with my Yammy 47.
What I had understand is that 6BS is more similar with 6.5AL/Yamaha 48 and 9BS with the Yamaha 47. I never played on V Cup mouthpiece, maybe I'll try both of them.

What are significant differences between bowl vs v cup and Yamaha/Bach vs DW ?

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:41 am

Define high notes?? And what is your practice routine? This may be a place to start!

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:16 am

Quote from: vegasbound on Jan 18, 2018, 06:41AMDefine high notes?? And what is your practice routine? This may be a place to start!

What are my high notes... They are depending a lot of the loudness I'm playing it. In new orleans BB style, a loud and powerful D is an high note for me, but higher is better.
And if I play softer, I like when my F is well centered. I have lots of difficult to got that with the 6,5. I have the sensation to have too many space in my mouthpiece and can't center my blow as necessary to get it.
For now I can't touch high A or Bb, but when I listen some players like Ray Anderson, it's something I want to do.

My practice routine now... That is a dilemma

I break playing trombone for almost 3-4 years. Past 2 years my main practice was to retrieve feeling, muscle and motivation. So i played fun things, try to re-play solos on them I like to play, to work on my impros skills.
Now it's better and either I haven't lots of projects, I'm motived to enter in the place again

So my routine is some flexibility exercices, staccato and legato on scales, notes accuracy...

About that, I'm open to any idea because I do not have a teacher.

That's a part of my musician life

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:50 am

IMHO. I would suggest a coule of lessons, just to make sure everything is working the way it should be or the way you think it used to.... I know after having a 10 year break you forget lots of things you use to do, and a couple of lessons with a good pro teacher will help resolve issues, put your mind at rest or point you,n the right direction!

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:37 am

Quote from: vegasbound on Jan 18, 2018, 10:50AMIMHO. I would suggest a coule of lessons, just to make sure everything is working the way it should be or the way you think it used to.... I know after having a 10 year break you forget lots of things you use to do, and a couple of lessons with a good pro teacher will help resolve issues, put your mind at rest or point you,n the right direction!

I'm agree with that bu tyou have to realize a thing. I'm living in France and not in a big city. It's very difficult to find a good trombone teacher.
For illustrate, in France, at school, the only thing we could learn was the flute.

Past years I had 2 teachers, 1 good and 1 bad. The good one, I could see him once a month and have to drive 2 X 300km for 1 hour of lesson (for 2 students).
The second one, when I learnerd him what is a 3rd, I didn't want to see him again.

So, if I have to wait for lessons to practice, I can sell my bones this day.

But if I find a good teacher it will be a pleasure to learn with him/her.

Same problem to try or have informations about mutes, mouthpieces, trombones. 90% of trombonists are children and/or play on symphonic Courtois bone. That's why I asked you some informations about accessories and that's why I buy my bones in USA. Actually, on main used offers french website, you have 1 king 2B that's it.

So I would really appreciate to have some informations about V Cup mouthpieces because I never try one in many years of playing trombone

I hope I was not too rude, but really, I played some gigs in Canada and really in France it's another world.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:18 pm

Have a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott.

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:01 am

Quote from: vegasbound on Jan 18, 2018, 10:18PMHave a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott.

Oh, I didn't think about that. It's a pretty good idea.

ttf_roadyrod · Post by **ttf_roadyrod** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:01 am

So, the 1st feedback.
I'd buy 3 mouthpieces to try them. I have the possibility to return mouthpieces I don't want to keep.
I'd order a Yamaha 48, a DW 6BS and a DW 7CS.
First impression : the weight ! DW models are very lighter than Yammy. I don't know which impact it can have on sound.

The Yammy seems more similar to the 7CS and the 6 BS to the 6 1/2 AL.
It seems that DW have a sound smoother than Yammy. But high notes are less powerful and it's difficulter to hit an high F (but my try was really short and my lips are a little bit tired).

I'll try them a little bit more, but if you have some feedback on them, I'm interested to read it.

ttf_John Beers Jr. · Post by **ttf_John Beers Jr.** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:49 am

My one bit of feedback is that you really don't have any idea what you sound like when on the wrong side of the bell. So much vibration is transferred to your face through the metal of the horn that it can completely overshadow the actual auditory input.

That being the case... if trying to make subtle distinctions about the sound that's being produced, one thing that will likely be of benefit is some manner of audio recorder (It's also a good practice aid), especially insofar as it can help you listen to aspects of your playing on which you'd like to focus (my articulations have always been a bit squirrely, but I can't really hear that while focusing on playing, for example).

I've more or less come to the point where I choose my mouthpiece based on whatever is easiest to play and assume that my mental picture will warp the sound to sound like I usually do (that is to say... bad). If it seems to be easier to play, that's because it's interfering less with what you're trying to do (consciously or unconsciously). As a plug for Mr. Elliott, this is where his mouthpieces shine.

(As another plug in favor of some form of lesson with him... I had thought that I was a low placement player until I had a lesson with him a few years back... where I found out I was just the opposite, a very high placement type. I don't know what he charges for skype lessons, but it will almost certainly save you more money (plus time and frustration) than it costs you.)

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:36 am

Quote from: roadyrod on Jan 25, 2018, 06:01AM
The Yammy seems more similar to the 7CS and the 6 BS to the 6 1/2 AL.

The DW 9BS is closer to the 6.5AL IMO. It's like their last smaller m/p and is even recommended as a student m/p in their blurb, "having an easier high range".

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:48 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Jan 25, 2018, 09:36AMThe DW 9BS is closer to the 6.5AL IMO. It's like their last smaller m/p and is even recommended as a student m/p in their blurb, "having an easier high range".

Wick 6bs and 9bs have same size rim 25.4mm which is the same as 61/2 bach

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:48 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Jan 25, 2018, 09:36AMThe DW 9BS is closer to the 6.5AL IMO. It's like their last smaller m/p and is even recommended as a student m/p in their blurb, "having an easier high range".

Wick 6bs and 9bs have same size rim 25.4mm which is the same as 61/2 bach