The aging trombonist (and how to do it gracefully)

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:17 pm

Quote from: Nanook on Nov 13, 2017, 01:47PMM. Stern I went and had my ophthalmologist examine my eyes for the distance that my music stand sits from my eyes...Worked really well for me... I used old frames and it cost me around $50...

This has worked well for me as well. I took a music stand and some terrible scrawled hand written music with me for the eye test. The ophthalmologist happened to be a musician herself and commented something to the effect of, good ***, you don't have to read this stuff do you?

The result is that the music is not only much clearer, but is slightly bigger as well. Recommended.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Ive had mixed success with cheap Internet eyeglasses ground specifically for music. If you dont like them you can send them back and get a refund. I have one pair that work well and I ought to get them copied so I have several pairs, one to put in my trombone bag, one for my guitar bag, one for my bookshelf, etc.

Progressive lens have never worked for me. I recall once, trying to get used to them and, during a rehearsal, being required to play into the stand. Of course, leaning forward, the notes became a blur.

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:05 pm

I had eye laser surgery done about 18 years ago and have almost perfect vision ever since. The last 5 years or so required cataract surgery on both eyes, and now vision is as good as it gets. When miss notes now, I cant blame it on my vision. Thats the down side.

OBTW, Im too young to use as an excuse too!

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:31 pm

Except for one person who was warned she was not a suitable candidate for laser eye surgery at the outset, everybody Ive talked to who have had the treatment has been pretty happy with it.

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Yep, on the subject of eyesight, I had a my epiretinal membranes scraped about six years back and my eyes were very much improved. I used to require glasses to drive as an official requirement of the licence issue. But, after the op, glasses are no longer required (officially by the Dept. of Transport).

Music reading is also much better with less-strong specs. But my specs have carefully measured focal lengths, designed precisely for my music reading. As trombonists, some of us have to allow extra focal length for slide clearance.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:02 pm

Cataract surgery and reading glasses are all very helpful. However, I had to quit a street band where I could not read the music up as close to my face as a bell lyre put it - no matter how large I made the music. And there were far too many charts to memorize them.

My point is that even though we may have our vision corrected to 20/20, there may still be some type of a perception problem. I could see the music in front of my face; I just couldn't keep my focus on it well with it moving all around. Throw dim lighting and/or darkness into the mix - even with a headlight or lighted ball-cap on - and it was all the worse.

Band/ensemble music is generally no problem b/c it sits still on my music stand and is usually large enough. And if it isn't, that is where the reading glasses come into play.

...Geezer

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:15 pm

1 out of 20 people regret their laser eye surgery.

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:25 pm

Quote from: blast on Nov 13, 2017, 01:11PMI do get more tired... not on the gig... travelling.... the back end of last week I played in Inverness Thursday night, drove to Edinburgh Friday morning, did afternoon and evening rehearsals there and morning and afternoon Saturday, then drove back to Inverness for an evening show. Sunday I drove back to Glasgow. The rest of Sunday I was out of it. Tomorrow is Glasgow, Wednesday Edinburgh, Thursday and Friday Huddersfield and Saturday Glasgow, Sunday Edinburgh, Monday Perth, Tuesday Edinburgh, Wednesday Glasgow.... you get the picture. Driving gets tougher.
Chris Stearn

I'm envious that you have the choice of driving around most of your country. Even a short trip here is an hour in a plane, so when you add the waiting times and airport transport, it's 4-5 hours minimum. But still, that's a lot of driving.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:06 am

FYI, there is a gofundme page for Urbie Green. He's 91 and having medical issues, and I guess is without medical insurance.

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:11 am

Quote from: bonesmarsh on Nov 13, 2017, 04:11AMYou can't do it gracefully. It will be hard hard work. After age 50 you have to run twice as fast as you can , just to stand still effortlessly.

Brass players older than myself warned me. The trumpet players I worked with got up at 4AM to warm up at 5AM for 10AM church service gigs. That was a huge help, that advice.

I have friends that need to warm up (much) longer. This seems to be a result of not practising daily. One good friend currently sounds like poop for 20 minutes into a rehearsal, then things get better.

I know 75 year olds that just sit down and play at a pro level. I wonder how much time they play every day. Some people may age differently, or they have figured something out.

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:15 am

In our community band, we go through several minutes of chorale warmups before we start rehearsing. That might not be enough for all, but at least it's a start.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:22 am

While there may be a wide spectrum of what, if anything, constitutes a warm-up for us; there certainly is no harm in it.

Mine seems to be fluid; sometimes none needed and sometimes I can't seem to get warmed up until rehearsal is almost done and then I wish it could go on for another hour. Biorhythms?

...Geezer

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:39 am

My playing time is like a cell phone with limited limits. Do I spend my minutes warming up, or playing?

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:05 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Nov 14, 2017, 06:39AMMy playing time is like a cell phone with limited limits. Do I spend my minutes warming up, or playing?

This gets back to what Bonesmarsh said. If your face time is limited to a fixed number of minutes, aging brass players could very well have limited results. You may or may not be playing enough to reach your former level. Some players have the dedication to put in the time necessary to play at a level they consider to be acceptable.

On the other side of this, some retirees continue to play at a pro level. At our last big band rehearsal, Russ Little (formerly lead of the Boss Brass) did a good read of Urbie's A Very Precious Love. He is 76. There are a number of high Cs, Ds, and a couple of Es in there. Russ is just a naturally talented guy

Other people take up other instruments. If they stay with brass, they move from trumpet to trombone, or trombone to tuba.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:14 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Nov 14, 2017, 06:39AMMy playing time is like a cell phone with limited limits. Do I spend my minutes warming up, or playing?

Ha! I feel the same about my very highest notes. If your band wants me to play IGSOY, then you best put it up front!

...Geezer

ttf_W/SBTRB · Post by **ttf_W/SBTRB** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:44 am

I am 63 years old and have the following:
Parkinson's Disease
Diabetic
Macro Degenerative Disease
SKin Cancer Squamous Cell removed this summer

I still actcively play my trombone
I still teach
I golf.
Nothing has changed.

I go about my day as a normal person. I played a recital in August playing among others Spillman COncerto and WIlder Sonata, and Vivaldi Concerto. I refuse to stop.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:20 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Nov 12, 2017, 11:47PMAnother age-related reason I play less (and play worse for it) is that I have more interests now. Some are musical, others not at all, but I like them and they all take time to pursue if i want to do them well.

When trombone was one of few interests it was possible to spend hours a day practicing. But now it is just one of many. I enjoy the other things partly because they are new, whereas trombone is mostly going to be retreading old ground for me.

I did bands and orchestras for years, that scene is not going to change. I'm looking for new things to do.

I identify with much of this. Right now, I'm at rehearsals on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday nights, with some Friday/Sat rehearsals, and a few Sat/Sun gigs coming up. We live in the suburbs, so there's lots of driving (and time wasted in traffic). I play some guitar, which requires practice, albeit less than trombone. Oh yes, job and family also. I also try to get some exercise here and there. There are only so many hours in the day and, frankly, the dilithium crystals are beginning to run a little low.

ttf_Nanook · Post by **ttf_Nanook** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:42 am

[ frankly, the dilithium crystals are beginning to run a little low.
[/quote]

Captain I'm givin ya everything I've got...

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:49 am

I don't think I can take anymore.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:51 pm

Quote from: W/SBTRB on Nov 14, 2017, 08:44AMI am 63 years old and have the following:
Parkinson's Disease
Diabetic
Macro Degenerative Disease
SKin Cancer Squamous Cell removed this summer

I still actcively play my trombone
I still teach
I golf.
Nothing has changed.

I go about my day as a normal person. I played a recital in August playing among others Spillman COncerto and WIlder Sonata, and Vivaldi Concerto. I refuse to stop.

BRAVO !!!!

Chris Stearn

ttf_Birdy · Post by **ttf_Birdy** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:40 pm

Quote from: blast on Nov 13, 2017, 01:11PMWell, here I am still in the gig I won back in 1984.... will be 62 next month.
What's it like now compared to back then ?
Overall..... EASIER.
The physical act of playing is at it's most efficient.... high low, soft loud... still works.
I know most of the rep. Done the standard stuff many times.... it's still fun and gives my brain a workout, but I am more comfortable.
So, you say, there must be downsides.....
Yup.... eyesight is the biggest one.... it's not bad, but not as good as it was, and I have yet to find glasses that I really like.... upside is that I remember music quicker because that makes life easier.
Hearing is okay.... a bit off the top, but I have no issues with a gig playing quarter tones this week.
I do get more tired... not on the gig... travelling.... the back end of last week I played in Inverness Thursday night, drove to Edinburgh Friday morning, did afternoon and evening rehearsals there and morning and afternoon Saturday, then drove back to Inverness for an evening show. Sunday I drove back to Glasgow. The rest of Sunday I was out of it. Tomorrow is Glasgow, Wednesday Edinburgh, Thursday and Friday Huddersfield and Saturday Glasgow, Sunday Edinburgh, Monday Perth, Tuesday Edinburgh, Wednesday Glasgow.... you get the picture. Driving gets tougher.
I still want to get better on trombone and enjoy practice.
So many people go on about how much harder it gets, so I am quite surprised at the 'business-as-usual' way things are up to now.
Nobody is getting younger.... but it's okay.... honest.

Chris Stearn

Chris, there's an optician about 5 minutes drive from Mick Rath who specialises in glasses for musicians so they can see music and director as required. The business is called Allegro Optical in Meltham. Happy to put you in touch.

ttf_kingkiwi · Post by **ttf_kingkiwi** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:37 am

For everyone who has trouble reading music at our ages, (God - those little march sheets!!), I went the specialised glasses route as well, and that helped. But what really made a difference was getting a 13" tablet! Reading notes is no problem now, it's amazing how much better I play more easily.

What I have also done is acknowledged that seeing everything clearly is top priority, so I make a tradeoff and turn pages more often. I use the tablet in landscape mode so that the page is now 12" wide, and the notes are 40% bigger - MUCH easier to play.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:41 am

Quote from: Birdy on Nov 28, 2017, 01:40PMChris, there's an optician about 5 minutes drive from Mick Rath who specialises in glasses for musicians so they can see music and director as required. The business is called Allegro Optical in Meltham. Happy to put you in touch.

I have say that the glasses I recently had made work very well. I will probably end up using them. The truth is that I prefer the conductor to be a blur.... it makes them so much easier to follow.
Chris Stearn

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:35 am

Me too.

I had a pair of music glasses made some time ago. When I replaced my regular glasses, I could see the music well enough to get by, and I stopped using them.

This year I had another pair of single vision music glasses made, since I didn't need to get new regular ones. I can see the music with either pair, BUT the single vision ones have a much wider clear area. With the bifocals I need to align that one spot, and can only see one page of music, so I'm always pulling sheets out of the binder. The music glasses let me see both left and right pages and a little bit of a third page.

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:49 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Today at 06:35 AMMe too.

I had a pair of music glasses made some time ago. When I replaced my regular glasses, I could see the music well enough to get by, and I stopped using them.

This year I had another pair of single vision music glasses made, since I didn't need to get new regular ones. I can see the music with either pair, BUT the single vision ones have a much wider clear area. With the bifocals I need to align that one spot, and can only see one page of music, so I'm always pulling sheets out of the binder. The music glasses let me see both left and right pages and a little bit of a third page.
This is consistent with my experience with glasses as well. The single vision readers allow me to see a wider angle, the other issue I have is my regular glasses have a small sweet spot vertically for any given distance. I can definately see more of the page on the stand with the single vision lenses. I do get by with my regular glasses but the readers adjusted for a 2 ft. focal length do make it easier.

ttf_EdGrissom · Post by **ttf_EdGrissom** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:43 am

I'm 58 and can see signs of things not always feeling "right". While some people talk about losing the high range and dropping to play 2nd part, mine is the opposite direction. As a bass trombonist I struggle with low and loud, so I am moving up to the 3rd book more often.

Right now, at this very moment, we are as old as we've ever been and as young as we'll ever be.

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:55 pm

I'm six months short of eighty and as I reported earlier in this topic, I gave up playing first trombone in some Big Swing Bands at the beginning of this year. I hope I managed the stepping down gracefully because it really peed me off. However, I have decided that practicing by myself at home is not a fun way to carry on with my playing. I just miss that knowledge that I will eventually have an audience to entertain. So, next year I plan to return to the local community band and play maybe 2nd with the Concert Band, because those parts are far less demanding, but they do have some nice music and regular concerts to play.

In addition, I have now found myself a nice little band to play with at a Swing Club, mainly for old folks, which is connected with our local music shop. One also gets to meet other musicians who are handling their age-related playing restrictions very well. The club's policy of getting people to: "Come along and sing or play your instrument. All welcome" guarantees a good attendance.

I am also going to reform my old Traditional Jazz band and find some venues for playing.

After watching Paul McCartney, who is presently touring Australia, I am coming to the conclusion that there is no need to try and age gracefully. I will just continue to entertain but will not try to play beyond my present lip capabilities. This is what the press said about Paul: "And he gallivanted around the stage with more finesse than any 75-year-old ought to be able to muster, like a living, breathing, dancing advertisement for vegetarianism." Yeah, I like that!

ttf_Steven · Post by **ttf_Steven** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:14 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 11, 2017, 01:55PM there is no need to try and age gracefully.

I love that.

ttf_Max Croot · Post by **ttf_Max Croot** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:18 pm

Me again. I am still playing OK for my age but I have come up against Ageism. I was asked to do Pippen and somebody said "He's quite old you know. The musical director said If he can't do it I'll get someone else. I did the gig and the M.D. was quite surprised. Never ever give up.

ttf_GetzenBassPlayer · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:40 pm

Quote from: blast on Dec 09, 2017, 05:41AMI have say that the glasses I recently had made work very well. I will probably end up using them. The truth is that I prefer the conductor to be a blur.... it makes them so much easier to follow.
Chris Stearn

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 am

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 11, 2017, 01:55PMI'm six months short of eighty and as I reported earlier in this topic, I gave up playing first trombone in some Big Swing Bands at the beginning of this year. I hope I managed the stepping down gracefully because it really peed me off. However, I have decided that practicing by myself at home is not a fun way to carry on with my playing. I just miss that knowledge that I will eventually have an audience to entertain. So, next year I plan to return to the local community band and play maybe 2nd with the Concert Band, because those parts are far less demanding, but they do have some nice music and regular concerts to play.

In addition, I have now found myself a nice little band to play with at a Swing Club, mainly for old folks, which is connected with our local music shop. One also gets to meet other musicians who are handling their age-related playing restrictions very well. The club's policy of getting people to: "Come along and sing or play your instrument. All welcome" guarantees a good attendance.

I am also going to reform my old Traditional Jazz band and find some venues for playing.

After watching Paul McCartney, who is presently touring Australia, I am coming to the conclusion that there is no need to try and age gracefully. I will just continue to entertain but will not try to play beyond my present lip capabilities. This is what the press said about Paul: "And he gallivanted around the stage with more finesse than any 75-year-old ought to be able to muster, like a living, breathing, dancing advertisement for vegetarianism." Yeah, I like that!

This is all true. You don't need to play lead to play well. The idea of sitting home practising and playing the occasional duet or trio might be self-satisfying for some. For me, I need to perform to be happy.

I'm also looking to play more jazz in the years ahead.

ttf_Torobone · Post by **ttf_Torobone** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 am

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 11, 2017, 01:55PMI'm six months short of eighty and as I reported earlier in this topic, I gave up playing first trombone in some Big Swing Bands at the beginning of this year. I hope I managed the stepping down gracefully because it really peed me off. However, I have decided that practicing by myself at home is not a fun way to carry on with my playing. I just miss that knowledge that I will eventually have an audience to entertain. So, next year I plan to return to the local community band and play maybe 2nd with the Concert Band, because those parts are far less demanding, but they do have some nice music and regular concerts to play.

In addition, I have now found myself a nice little band to play with at a Swing Club, mainly for old folks, which is connected with our local music shop. One also gets to meet other musicians who are handling their age-related playing restrictions very well. The club's policy of getting people to: "Come along and sing or play your instrument. All welcome" guarantees a good attendance.

I am also going to reform my old Traditional Jazz band and find some venues for playing.

After watching Paul McCartney, who is presently touring Australia, I am coming to the conclusion that there is no need to try and age gracefully. I will just continue to entertain but will not try to play beyond my present lip capabilities. This is what the press said about Paul: "And he gallivanted around the stage with more finesse than any 75-year-old ought to be able to muster, like a living, breathing, dancing advertisement for vegetarianism." Yeah, I like that!

This is all true. You don't need to play lead to play well. The idea of sitting home practising and playing the occasional duet or trio might be self-satisfying for some. For me, I need to perform to be happy.

I'm also looking to play more jazz in the years ahead.