Playing between the partials

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:11 am

I guess this belong to the bending notes category, but never seen or heard a trombone player doing it.

You can actually almost play a major scale in the middle register without changing position, but in the between notes will be actually bent and somewhat off center. This is supposed to enhance embouchure control.

Does anybody doing on the tbone and what are your thoughts about it?

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:03 am

There's a video of Bob McChesney doing it. I think it's with Paul the Trombonist.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:16 am

I know about Bob....I am quite away from his level, but I do follow his stuff.

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:33 am

What Bob is doing is showing us that our imagination let us hear what we think is played if it is fast enough and cleanly articaulated. And he give us a fantastic lesson about slide technique. Watch it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBnxu5aV3iY

The brassinstruments partials series are the most priviliged tones in our horns, it is possible to play almost any tone on any positions, those tones are less privilged. With a strong embouchure you can play tones in between the "regular" partials.

There is the "falset stimme" that some trombonists on TTF play to fill the gap between low E and the pedals. That is an underpriviliged tone between 1 and 2 partial. There is also undepriviliged tones between 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 partials that is possoble to play.

It is possible to play a "glissando" not using the slide over most of the trombone range. With a good sound? Well...

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:41 am

For now I just play the bottom tetrachord of any major scale without moving the slide where partials are 3rd away (forming the 1-3-5 kind of arpeggio. The notes in between are certainly underprivileged and I execute them slowly for now. Going downward is easier though.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 am

All that time learning the correct positions and now it turns out I only needed one!

D'oh!

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:52 am

The first I heard of this was that Hal Crook did it.

I practice it from time to time, but I always keep in mind that there's a limit to how much it should be done.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:58 pm

I do that sometimes but mostly in low register. Glizz from low Bb - F - pedal Bb. A - E - pedal A and so on. Also it help lip trils in higher register. I have not done it so much in middle register. But I do lip bends like Jeff Reynolds. F-E-F-E-F. It helps center the sound in fact.

Leif

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:14 am

Ok, this is something that I actually do, among othere things, like scales longtones arpeggios and flexis, and tunes.
5th partial 1st pos. D gliss to C# hold it four beats and the moving the slide to 2nd keeping the C#
4th partial 1st pos. Bb gliss to Ab on #2nd hold it move slide to 3rd kepping the Ab.
3rd partial 1st pos. F to Eb on 1st hold and move to 3rd.
2nd partial 1st pos. Bb to F# hold and move to 5th.

I keep doing this on lower positions also of course.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:29 pm

Quote from: svenlarsson on Sep 27, 2017, 06:14AMOk, this is something that I actually do, among othere things, like scales longtones arpeggios and flexis, and tunes.
5th partial 1st pos. D gliss to C# hold it four beats and the moving the slide to 2nd keeping the C#
4th partial 1st pos. Bb gliss to Ab on #2nd hold it move slide to 3rd kepping the Ab.
3rd partial 1st pos. F to Eb on 1st hold and move to 3rd.
2nd partial 1st pos. Bb to F# hold and move to 5th.

I keep doing this on lower positions also of course.

Svenne Im going to try that. I wonder what register you find it hardest to do this. For me its more difficult in the middle register. Long time ago in a workshop here, I listen Denis Wick do a complete glizz from pedal Bb to triple Bb. It sounded like the clarinet in Gershwin piano concerto. Couldn't believe it was possible, but the sound felt nice all the way. All in 1st position. Never heard anyone do it like that. It was a shock to listen for an young trombone player, I never forget it.

Leif

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:33 pm

It is very possible with strong chops. I can totally gliss between middle Bb and F above. It's harder above and below that.

Maybe I'll post it on YouTube...

ttf_baileyman · Post by **ttf_baileyman** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:27 pm

I am convinced Fontana could play any note with great sound within a position of where it was supposed to be. Little triple doodle down and back figures especially.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:33 pm

Quote from: baileyman on Sep 28, 2017, 04:27PMI am convinced Fontana could play any note with great sound within a position of where it was supposed to be. Little triple doodle down and back figures especially.

Can't most collegiate and pro trombonists play any note with great sound in the position it's supposed to be in? I thought this thread was about playing notes where they aren't supposed to be.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:54 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 28, 2017, 09:33PMCan't most collegiate and pro trombonists play any note with great sound in the position it's supposed to be in? I thought this thread was about playing notes where they aren't supposed to be.I think what he meant was that Fontana could make it sound "right" as long as the slide was within +/- a half step of the "correct" position.

In college I played with a guy who could play a passable

in first position.

ttf_baileyman · Post by **ttf_baileyman** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:06 am

Quote from: JohnL on Sep 28, 2017, 09:54PMI think what he meant was that Fontana could make it sound "right" as long as the slide was within +/- a half step of the "correct" position.

In college I played with a guy who could play a passable

in first position.

Yes, that's right. Transcribing the guy and a note pops out clear as a bell at half speed listening, but at regular speed would require an impossible shift. And even if he could could do the shift, he wouldn't, as he says, "I don't fight the horn. It's hard enough already."

ttf_baileyman · Post by **ttf_baileyman** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:06 am

Quote from: JohnL on Sep 28, 2017, 09:54PMI think what he meant was that Fontana could make it sound "right" as long as the slide was within +/- a half step of the "correct" position.

In college I played with a guy who could play a passable

in first position.

Yes, that's right. Transcribing the guy and a note pops out clear as a bell at half speed listening, but at regular speed would require an impossible shift. And even if he could could do the shift, he wouldn't, as he says, "I don't fight the horn. It's hard enough already."