What schooling is necessary if I want to be in military band?

ttf_Isabel Trombone · Post by **ttf_Isabel Trombone** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:39 am

If I want to join the military and play trombone for them professionally, what sort of schooling would be necessary? Are there financial benefits or anything that would help pay for the school?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:46 am

Quote from: Isabel Trombone on Sep 06, 2017, 01:39AMIf I want to join the military and play trombone for them professionally, what sort of schooling would be necessary? Are there financial benefits or anything that would help pay for the school?

High school is required. G. I. Bill helps pay for future school.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:28 am

You only need to have completed high school and pass the initial audition. If you want your career to last more than the 8 year RCP point for active duty or get into a premier military band, you'll definitely want at least a 4 year degree. It doesn't have to be a music degree, but you should go to a school that let's non-majors be in the trombone studio if you decide not to study music.

Most of the new recruits coming into the bands have music degrees, many have masters degrees, and a few even have doctorates. The ones with no degrees are currently having a difficult time (in the Army at least) getting promoted. You can get a degree while you're in, but it's very time consuming. Imagine being at work from 630am until 4 or 5pm, and THEN going to class or doing online schooling.

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:31 am

I've been retired from the Military since 2001, so my information isn't the most current, but it is my understanding that you still only need to be a High school graduate (or GED) holder, with enough competence on the instrument to pass the Audition to get into most of the Military bands. I would say though that having at least a Bachelors degree going in will make your military life much easier. Promotions will come quicker, you won't have to try to earn college credits as a part time student in order to get promoted to stay in. While on active duty instead of struggling to get your bachelors degree, you can take your time and work on getting credits towards a masters. I would say talk to a recruiter to get the most current information, but at the same time I would look into colleges for a music degree, do your four years, and then enlist and use the GI Bill to help pay off your student debt. Getting a Bachelors degree first is a win / win proposition, I wish I had done that before I enlisted.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:22 am

Getting in is competitive, and some of your competition has music degrees.

You could audition now, if you don't make it try again after 2 - 4 years in music school.

Or wait until you have a degree, in 6 or 8 years.

There's an upper age limit, I think it might be 35?

Some of my coworkers kept their GI benefits and used them for their children instead.

ttf_Isabel Trombone · Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:49 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Sep 06, 2017, 02:46AMHigh school is required. G. I. Bill helps pay for future school.

Thanks- how would I apply for the G. I. Bill when it's time for me to go to college or a conservatory?

ttf_Isabel Trombone · Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:52 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 06, 2017, 05:28AMYou only need to have completed high school and pass the initial audition. If you want your career to last more than the 8 year RCP point for active duty or get into a premier military band, you'll definitely want at least a 4 year degree. It doesn't have to be a music degree, but you should go to a school that let's non-majors be in the trombone studio if you decide not to study music.

Most of the new recruits coming into the bands have music degrees, many have masters degrees, and a few even have doctorates. The ones with no degrees are currently having a difficult time (in the Army at least) getting promoted. You can get a degree while you're in, but it's very time consuming. Imagine being at work from 630am until 4 or 5pm, and THEN going to class or doing online schooling.

Thanks! So I better get a degree then join the military. Would you happen to know which branch(es) are easier to get into the band for, and/or deploy less people?

ttf_Isabel Trombone · Post by **ttf_Isabel Trombone** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:03 am

Quote from: Radar on Sep 06, 2017, 09:31AMI've been retired from the Military since 2001, so my information isn't the most current, but it is my understanding that you still only need to be a High school graduate (or GED) holder, with enough competence on the instrument to pass the Audition to get into most of the Military bands. I would say though that having at least a Bachelors degree going in will make your military life much easier. Promotions will come quicker, you won't have to try to earn college credits as a part time student in order to get promoted to stay in. While on active duty instead of struggling to get your bachelors degree, you can take your time and work on getting credits towards a masters. I would say talk to a recruiter to get the most current information, but at the same time I would look into colleges for a music degree, do your four years, and then enlist and use the GI Bill to help pay off your student debt. Getting a Bachelors degree first is a win / win proposition, I wish I had done that before I enlisted.

Thanks for responding! Would it be better to go to a conservatory, or is college more appropriate?

ttf_Isabel Trombone · Post by **ttf_Isabel Trombone** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:07 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Sep 06, 2017, 11:22AMGetting in is competitive, and some of your competition has music degrees.

You could audition now, if you don't make it try again after 2 - 4 years in music school.

Or wait until you have a degree, in 6 or 8 years.

There's an upper age limit, I think it might be 35?

Some of my coworkers kept their GI benefits and used them for their children instead.

Thanks for replying! Is the upper age limit for getting into the military bands, or is it for being in the bands?

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:53 am

One does not need a music degree to get promoted in the navy fleet bands, from what I see. A BM does look good though. And there are online programs to get a regular BA, or BS, if you put the time in. Yes, theres the GI Bill. But theres also a 30 yr loan guarantee program. I did 8 yrs as a fleet musician. Great job. All three OICs I worked for had advanced degrees, but not necessarily music ones at the time. A lot of communications, MBA, business, psychology, and MATs running around. Attrition was basically njps, medical, fitness test failures, and substance abuse. I play in a lot of groups in the area with former military musicians. Enjoy the ride. But, Id expect more cuts. Gen. Mattis will probably cut more bands. Opinions vary, but Id still join up with the navy. But its definitely smart to see which branch is best suited for you.

ttf_JBledsoe · Post by **ttf_JBledsoe** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:55 am

If what you want to do is perform, go get a Bachelors in Music Performance, Music Business, etc., and get a solid grasp of the fundamentals. Then audition for the military bands.

ttf_macbone · Post by **ttf_macbone** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:57 am

I did an Air Force regional bands career, retiring in 2007. Keep in mind that military musicians can only serve in enlisted ranks (the lowest paying); the officer rank and pay is only for band commanders. That said, I think an associate's degree in music is the best match to the pay grade as a band recruit (E-3). The Army sends band recruits to their school anyway, no matter how much education you have. I had a Bachelor's from a name school 2 years before enlisting and it seemed to have nothing to do with my promotion rate. But the auditions are so tough nowadays, you may NEED the 4 year degree to win it.

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:59 am

I know some guys who are/were in the DC bands. I'm pretty sure many of them didn't have degrees when they joined up. I know it's not a requirement.

Go to the school with the teacher who can help you best with becoming the player you want to be. Competition for active duty bands is thick, particularly for the premier bands.

The guys I know went to UNT, UCO, CU, UNC, I think one went to NEC maybe, Miami - schools with strong jazz programs. I reckon in the wind ensembles you'll probably find more conservatory guys, but don't count out colleges/state schools. Teachers there are every bit as good as the conservatory guys and they produce just as many professionals (without the 6 figure debt associated with high end conservatories.) Go somewhere that makes financial sense and has good teachers.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:37 pm

Please don't sign up for the US Military if you don't want to deploy overseas and support the US mission and troops. Or if you are really worried about it, sign up for the Coast Guard or one of the DC bands.

Otherwise, don't do it.

(This is just my personal experience and not an official view)

ttf_Woolworth · Post by **ttf_Woolworth** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 am

You might also think about looking into the Reserve or National Guard band programs. Competition is a little less stiff (local/state level only) and you can attend college with benefits while you serve.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:11 am

Harrison beat me to it but I'll echo his comment. If you are averse to deploying, do not join the military in any capacity to include the reserves and national guard.

- Dan

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Quote from: macbone on Sep 09, 2017, 04:57AM Keep in mind that military musicians can only serve in enlisted ranks (the lowest paying); the officer rank and pay is only for band commanders.

That is sort of true. It depends on which service branch, and even within the branch it depends on where you are and who you are. There are so many variables that explaining everything via a web forum is impossible. AND things change. The Marine Corps music program today is different than it was in 2013 when I left.

If you'd like to PM me with specific questions, feel free. I'll do my best to answer them but realize that at some point you'll just have to make a decision and hope for the best.

My military experience is:

2005-2013 - USMC
2014-2017 - Active Army
2017-present - Minnesota National Guard

- Dan

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:28 pm

I didn't realize you switched to NG, Dan. Good luck!

Did you make the move down to Anchorage in 16/17?

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:14 pm

Premier band positions start at 52-56K a year. That's more than an O-1 makes last I checked (and an O2 if I remember right).

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:52 pm

Quote from: Exzaclee on Yesterday at 03:14 PMPremier band positions start at 52-56K a year. That's more than an O-1 makes last I checked (and an O2 if I remember right).

They are optimistically including BAH and other pays that aren't included on the pay scale, as well as COLA for the DC area. An O1 stationed around DC would be making a lot more.

The premier bands seem to all start you out at E6 pay, plus single or w/ dependant rate BAH.

The unfortunate thing is that the pay seems OK, but DC is extremely expensive to live in/near.

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:22 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 11, 2017, 03:52PMThey are optimistically including BAH and other pays that aren't included on the pay scale, as well as COLA for the DC area. An O1 stationed around DC would be making a lot more.

The premier bands seem to all start you out at E6 pay, plus single or w/ dependant rate BAH.

The unfortunate thing is that the pay seems OK, but DC is extremely expensive to live in/near.

I hear ya, Harrison. That said, a trombonist making 50K a year anywhere in the states is good bread. Some years I'm lucky to bring in 25K and I make it work just fine. I understand DC is expensive, but a single person can live just fine on 52K a year. And the military offers plenty of benefits (while you're in anyway) that the rest of us simply don't get. I live in Oklahoma which has a pretty decent cost of living associated with it. That said, I guarantee you my nut is much higher than anyone in the military bands when you figure in my mortgage, health insurance costs, grocery bills (no PX)/sales tax, etc. All those little economic benefits add up pretty big. Hell, last time I was on the road my dry cleaning bill was getting into about $200 a month. Those little things add up.

One friend of mine was making in the high 90s when he retired. Let's not act like this isn't a good paying gig. It doesn't pay full time broadway money, but it doesn't have near the costs associated with it either.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:31 am

I was basing my idea off of the expense of DC on a recent Fortune Mag article that said the cost of living for an average family of 4 was over 100K just to cover housing, trans, medical, and food. I hear you too, especially if you are a single person, the gig is great at entry level!

Now, if you stick it out in the regular active duty bands or the DC bands, it can become very financially rewarding. Pershings own has two or three trombonists who are E9s. Nearly all the trombonists are currently E7s and E8s. E8 and E9 pay is up there with some of the better orchestras. But this category of musician includes MSG Harry Watters, so take a number, and in the meantime we can all "power practice". Those guys can really play!

There is NO doubt that a military music career can be extremely rewarding, musically, service-wise, and financially.

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:27 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 09, 2017, 09:37PMPlease don't sign up for the US Military if you don't want to deploy overseas and support the US mission and troops. Or if you are really worried about it, sign up for the Coast Guard or one of the DC bands.

Otherwise, don't do it.

(This is just my personal experience and not an official view)

You shouldnt talk **** about the Coasties. Theyre DHS now. They can look you up in the DOD database and flag you.

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:09 pm

Quote from: schlitzbeer on Sep 14, 2017, 03:27PM They can look you up in the DOD database and flag you.

oooooh, scared....

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:19 pm

Quote from: Exzaclee on Sep 14, 2017, 07:09PMoooooh, scared....

I dooubt there are too many Coasties in Oklahoma

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:36 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Sep 14, 2017, 07:19PMI dooubt there are too many Coasties in Oklahoma

3 week wonder.

ttf_Rockymountaintrombone · Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:53 pm

Back to the original question, any job in music needs just enough education to play the best at the audition. There is no real downside to having more education than whatever that minimum is, but there is an obvious downside to not getting enough training. In other words, it's about playing at a high level, and some people get there sooner than others.

If the OP is hoping to work in a military band, they should find the best school that they can get into, with the best teacher(s) that they have access to, and work their a.. off to get to their goal. The music business doesn't have a lot of full-time jobs - any of them, no matter how the pay stacks up, will be competitive in terms of who they attract to apply for them.

Good luck to the OP - I hope it works out for them.

Jim Scott

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:06 pm

Quote from: schlitzbeer on Sep 14, 2017, 03:27PMYou shouldn’t talk **** about the Coasties.

I don't think you understand what my post was saying, schiltz. Definitely wasn't putting down the Coast Guard, or their band. You should read into what I was actually telling the OP to do, as far as the DC military bands and the Coast Guard Band are concerned. I thought it was clever.

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:37 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Yesterday at 09:06 PMI don't think you understand what my post was saying, schiltz. Definitely wasn't putting down the Coast Guard, or their band. You should read into what I was actually telling the OP to do, as far as the DC military bands and the Coast Guard Band are concerned. I thought it was clever.

I did too. Very clever. But I just had to stir the pot.

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:37 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Yesterday at 09:06 PMI don't think you understand what my post was saying, schiltz. Definitely wasn't putting down the Coast Guard, or their band. You should read into what I was actually telling the OP to do, as far as the DC military bands and the Coast Guard Band are concerned. I thought it was clever.

I did too. Very clever. But I just had to stir the pot.