Trouble With The Ride

[ttf_GetzenBassPlayer]

I have been struggling with getting The Ride (minor) in the pocket at  92 bpm. Playing it up till about 72 bpm is working, after that, it starts to fall behind, getting worse the faster it goes. I can play it well enough to fool the string players, but anybody who really knows the excerpt,
will be able to tell something isn't right. Any out of the box approaches you might have used to help a student or yourself with a problem with timing?

[ttf_Gabe Langfur]

Hard to know what exactly is slowing you down without hearing you play it, but I'll make a couple of suggestions that might help.

1. Pay close attention to note shapes. I hear a lot of Rides with odd and inconsistent note shapes. I think of this as being one of the rare instances when very squared-off notes work best.

   1a. Pay close attention to rhythmic releases. The square ends of notes need to happen at very definite times in the subdivision of the pulse, and then the breaths need to stay in rhythm in their subdivisions as well. The place I can sometimes lose time is in the breath after the dotted quarter tied over an 8th into the next beat. I make adjustments to other lengths so that that note doesn't have to be quite so long but is still noticeably longer than the plain dotted quarters.

2. The printed articulations are a guide to sound, not technique. This is true in any music, by the way - very few composers play(ed) brass instruments or really know what we do. Often a staccato - or in Wagner's case a spike accent - is written because a composer wants clarity.

   2a. Try playing the accented dotted eighth a little shorter, the 16th with the spike longer, and then don't tongue (or do a very light legato-ish tongue) the next 8th note...until the end of it. That's right, tongue stop the last note of the dotted figure.

BUT THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES!!! YOU DON'T DO TONGUE STOPS IN CLASSICAL MUSIC!!!

There are no rules, there's only music.

Doing it this way gets the 16th note - which is often lost - heard clearly without kicking out an accent, and it defines the end of the figure nicely so that it doesn't just sound like an 8th, two 16ths, and a slight hiccup - which I have heard from excellent professional players.

[ttf_GetzenBassPlayer]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I am will give it a try. I suspect my breathing is part of the issue.

[ttf_Burgerbob]

I would isolate it on an easy note, like F in the staff. Just airing it with no sound at that tempo feels a little fast- I would have to make sure the rhythm just in the air and tongue felt very secure before playing it on the notes.

[ttf_GetzenBassPlayer]

So, I think I know what my problem is; Getting off the the eight note that comes after the dotted eight , sixteenth on time. I spent a light of time with a half speed recorder playing the rhythm on the notes in the arpeggio. Now if can get it consistent and a tick faster

[ttf_GetzenBassPlayer]

So, I think I know what my problem is; Getting off the the eight note that comes after the dotted eight , sixteenth on time. I spent a light of time with a half speed recorder playing the rhythm on the notes in the arpeggio. Now if can get it consistent and a tick faster