Thanks Bob. My erudition is quite determinate.
Now everyone please excuse my absence a while. I have to go out in my yard this afternoon and play some Calypso music!
...Geezer
High note articulation
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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High note articulation
Aid!
Thanks Bob. My erudition is quite determinate.
Now everyone please excuse my absence a while. I have to go out in my yard this afternoon and play some Calypso music!
...Geezer
Thanks Bob. My erudition is quite determinate.
Now everyone please excuse my absence a while. I have to go out in my yard this afternoon and play some Calypso music!
...Geezer
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ttf_ssking2b
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High note articulation
Let me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc. I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba. Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn. I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil. I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
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ttf_timothy42b
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High note articulation
Quote from: ssking2b on Aug 22, 2017, 12:16PM
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
Yes, I've heard him, and he can nail that note with power. I'm in awe.
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
Yes, I've heard him, and he can nail that note with power. I'm in awe.
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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High note articulation
Quote from: ssking2b on Aug 22, 2017, 12:16PMLet me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc. I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba. Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn. I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil. I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
That's very interesting. So it's not some instant high-range gimmick like I saw on YouTube once. I did go to the page and read about it after seeing your post. But the manufacturer can write anything he wants to and in the five years I have been on this Forum, I haven't seen it mentioned once. Although there are many boards I do not look at.
I'm with you in trying to play from a more relaxed state. I work very, very hard every day to learn how to play without working hard.
This topic doesn't get enough discussion. Harrison commented on it as well. I mentioned the concept once recently to a nephew who does some singing. He was familiar with the concept and it's application to high-range training. Shouldn't this idea be as basic to brass players as inhale-press-and-blow? And yet it apparently isn't.
...Geezer
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
That's very interesting. So it's not some instant high-range gimmick like I saw on YouTube once. I did go to the page and read about it after seeing your post. But the manufacturer can write anything he wants to and in the five years I have been on this Forum, I haven't seen it mentioned once. Although there are many boards I do not look at.
I'm with you in trying to play from a more relaxed state. I work very, very hard every day to learn how to play without working hard.
This topic doesn't get enough discussion. Harrison commented on it as well. I mentioned the concept once recently to a nephew who does some singing. He was familiar with the concept and it's application to high-range training. Shouldn't this idea be as basic to brass players as inhale-press-and-blow? And yet it apparently isn't.
...Geezer
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ttf_svenlarsson
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High note articulation
Quote from: ssking2b on Aug 22, 2017, 12:16PMLet me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc. I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba. Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn. I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil. I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
Can you tell more about the Acousticoil? Sounds very interesting. (I can play double Bb on my basses too, not looking for a hightone help), but this sounds like something that has to do with the acousting of the horn, maybe making the standing waves mor steady?
BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case. Why? Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."
Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too. If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
Can you tell more about the Acousticoil? Sounds very interesting. (I can play double Bb on my basses too, not looking for a hightone help), but this sounds like something that has to do with the acousting of the horn, maybe making the standing waves mor steady?
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ttf_Bob Riddle
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High note articulation
When these first came out I knew several players trying them out.Not sure how many still use them.The idea ,as I remember it was to aid in the centering of notes,and slotting of notes, which in theory would aid intonation and tone quality.
Hope this helps some,
Bob Riddle
Hope this helps some,
Bob Riddle
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ttf_ssking2b
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High note articulation
The Acousticoil is designed to create a slight acoustic disruption. This does influence the standing waves. It was designed by a trumpet player to help his middle school and elementary school trumpet students get a proper focus, or slotting to their playing. It makes finding your slot on each not easier, or in my estimation, allows me a more finite control of the focus of my sound. The device is created using sound principals of physics, and is patented.
You don't hear all that much about them as it was created and manufactured by a one man operation. The creator is over 80 now , so he is not really actively producing the device any more. Myself and 2 partners are talking with him about keeping the product alive.
It does little or nothing for some players, but in the case of others, the difference is instant and dramatic. I call it dumbo's crow feather because if it helps you fly...mission accomplished. Why, how, etc doesn't matter if it works! It works for me, and many people I have introduced to it. We fly!
You don't hear all that much about them as it was created and manufactured by a one man operation. The creator is over 80 now , so he is not really actively producing the device any more. Myself and 2 partners are talking with him about keeping the product alive.
It does little or nothing for some players, but in the case of others, the difference is instant and dramatic. I call it dumbo's crow feather because if it helps you fly...mission accomplished. Why, how, etc doesn't matter if it works! It works for me, and many people I have introduced to it. We fly!
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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High note articulation
At any rate, until you guys can gain distribution rights, it appears to be a moot discussion point, as they apparently are no longer for sale. I went to their web site and then on to the site they list and all it shows are car stereo systems.
...Geezer
...Geezer
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ttf_timothy42b
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High note articulation
We have had some discussion in the past. I thought it was here but google found some on the old trombone-l (blast from the past, interesting to see some of the names that showed up), on trumpet herald, on tubenet, etc.
Some people liked them a lot, some could tell no difference. Most thought the acoustic explanation of the inventor is very unlikely, but that doesn't rule out an effect for some other reason, maybe just adding a little resistance at the right spot. Fontana was cited as somebody who used them.
Some people liked them a lot, some could tell no difference. Most thought the acoustic explanation of the inventor is very unlikely, but that doesn't rule out an effect for some other reason, maybe just adding a little resistance at the right spot. Fontana was cited as somebody who used them.
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ttf_Bob Riddle
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High note articulation
Tim,
What you said lines up very well with what I remember.
Bob Riddle
What you said lines up very well with what I remember.
Bob Riddle
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ttf_ssking2b
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High note articulation
All correct about the Accousticoil. The inventor/manufacturer, Don Novy, makes them himself. He is now over 80, and just not feeling like working too hard. I hope to work out something with him and my partners where we can make it, and sell it. I will keep the forum posted, as we will want to get a few folks to experiment with it soon. I have a friend who is experimenting with the trumpet version now, and having some success.
Since it has always been a one man operation, distribution has been small. When I first tried it I didn't care for it. Later, after some experimentation with placement, the result was stunningly good. Don never said it would work for everyone in every horn...but at a relatively inexpensive price, it won't hurt your wallet to try it. If we do reach an agreement with him, we intend to keep the price affordable. It's more important to us keep a good product around, not to make a fortune. But, to paraphrase Tevye, a small fortune couldn't hurt!
Since it has always been a one man operation, distribution has been small. When I first tried it I didn't care for it. Later, after some experimentation with placement, the result was stunningly good. Don never said it would work for everyone in every horn...but at a relatively inexpensive price, it won't hurt your wallet to try it. If we do reach an agreement with him, we intend to keep the price affordable. It's more important to us keep a good product around, not to make a fortune. But, to paraphrase Tevye, a small fortune couldn't hurt!
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ttf_Bob Riddle
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High note articulation
Just posted a video unedited of an exercise for consistency of attacks ,while working on obtaining a (feel) for every note.This can be started on any note.I chose a middle "F" because it is how it was originally given to me.
Bob Riddle
https://youtu.be/WbitAbaxAws
Bob Riddle
https://youtu.be/WbitAbaxAws
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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High note articulation
I recognized the pattern immediately! I use it for long tones and endurance training by breathing in through my stuffed-up nose. lol
So now I'll have to start using it for expanding my range! I like the idea of alternating high & low. I use the same concept on ballad songs that are pitched high. I'll start them off high and then play the second chorus as low as possible. Alan Kaplan's "Fools Rush In" is a good one for that. There are some important low B's to try for in trigger b2nd when I play his chart down two octaves after playing it up as written. Roy Agee's "I'm In The Mood For Love" - in swing - is great for that variation as well; lots of low C's and if I alternate low/high - there is a high D to make. I should try to do a recording of me playing it alternately low/high sometime. If (when) I can play through it hitting lush low C's and a vibrant high D - all lyrically - I'll figure those songs are no longer "etudes" for me. lol
My point is that to improve upon high note articulation and high-note development in general, I think it's important to sometimes also alternate with lots of low-range work - as you did on the demo. Why? Well, for me - I think it helps keep me from getting muscle-bound (for lack of a better term); keeps the chops supple - same as the Michael Davis warm-up flexibility exercises do for me (as well as opening up my tone) and helps to more smoothly connect the ranges, which just hitting one high note after another might not tend to do. So it's part of an "attack the high range (and low range) from all angles" strategy.
And I believe there is another good reason to incorporate that exercise or one like it: it can serve as a bench-mark for progress over time. Right now, I am using the Range Exercise in the Michael Davis "15-Minute Warm-Up Book" for that purpose. I use his play-along track and when I get the high Bb arpeggio out that is the end of his exercise, I quickly turn the volume down on my stereo (without taking my chops off the mpc) and continue extending the exercise up by half-steps. I can clearly note my progress over the past 8(?) months and it's encouraging. The only caveat with that approach is to not jump off the bridge (or do a mpc switch - LOL) if I have a bad day (or three). It's the long-term trend I believe that is important to keep focusing on. Okay, glean encouragement from the good days and fuggetabout (ala Sam) the bad days. lol
Anyway, thanks for sharing! Hope to see you soon!
...Geezer
So now I'll have to start using it for expanding my range! I like the idea of alternating high & low. I use the same concept on ballad songs that are pitched high. I'll start them off high and then play the second chorus as low as possible. Alan Kaplan's "Fools Rush In" is a good one for that. There are some important low B's to try for in trigger b2nd when I play his chart down two octaves after playing it up as written. Roy Agee's "I'm In The Mood For Love" - in swing - is great for that variation as well; lots of low C's and if I alternate low/high - there is a high D to make. I should try to do a recording of me playing it alternately low/high sometime. If (when) I can play through it hitting lush low C's and a vibrant high D - all lyrically - I'll figure those songs are no longer "etudes" for me. lol
My point is that to improve upon high note articulation and high-note development in general, I think it's important to sometimes also alternate with lots of low-range work - as you did on the demo. Why? Well, for me - I think it helps keep me from getting muscle-bound (for lack of a better term); keeps the chops supple - same as the Michael Davis warm-up flexibility exercises do for me (as well as opening up my tone) and helps to more smoothly connect the ranges, which just hitting one high note after another might not tend to do. So it's part of an "attack the high range (and low range) from all angles" strategy.
And I believe there is another good reason to incorporate that exercise or one like it: it can serve as a bench-mark for progress over time. Right now, I am using the Range Exercise in the Michael Davis "15-Minute Warm-Up Book" for that purpose. I use his play-along track and when I get the high Bb arpeggio out that is the end of his exercise, I quickly turn the volume down on my stereo (without taking my chops off the mpc) and continue extending the exercise up by half-steps. I can clearly note my progress over the past 8(?) months and it's encouraging. The only caveat with that approach is to not jump off the bridge (or do a mpc switch - LOL) if I have a bad day (or three). It's the long-term trend I believe that is important to keep focusing on. Okay, glean encouragement from the good days and fuggetabout (ala Sam) the bad days. lol
Anyway, thanks for sharing! Hope to see you soon!
...Geezer
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ttf_timothy42b
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High note articulation
Quote from: Geezerhorn on Aug 29, 2017, 05:49AMI recognized the pattern immediately!
It has a name, spiderweb.
It has a name, spiderweb.
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ttf_Bob Riddle
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High note articulation
Exactly!Bob Riddle
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ttf_svenlarsson
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High note articulation
About the conversation a while back, (not about the exact place to put the slide but how to name the positions), I found the book "Alternate Position System For Trombone" by Tom Malone. Copyright 1974.
His nomeclature is close to the Scandnavian.
Ex. 7th partial G position 1.7 abbreviation #2.
11th partial Eb position 1.5 abbreviation 1 1/2.
13th partial F# postion 1.4 abbreviation b1.
Of course this is only for talking about the positions.
As I hinted before, when we do play we use our ears and adjust the slide.
He is not using all possible positions though.
15th partial Ab pos. 2 abb. 2.
His nomeclature is close to the Scandnavian.
Ex. 7th partial G position 1.7 abbreviation #2.
11th partial Eb position 1.5 abbreviation 1 1/2.
13th partial F# postion 1.4 abbreviation b1.
Of course this is only for talking about the positions.
As I hinted before, when we do play we use our ears and adjust the slide.
He is not using all possible positions though.
15th partial Ab pos. 2 abb. 2.
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ttf_svenlarsson
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High note articulation
About the conversation a while back, (not about the exact place to put the slide but how to name the positions), I found the book "Alternate Position System For Trombone" by Tom Malone. Copyright 1974.
His nomeclature is close to the Scandnavian.
Ex. 7th partial G position 1.7 abbreviation #2.
11th partial Eb position 1.5 abbreviation 1 1/2.
13th partial F# postion 1.4 abbreviation b1.
Of course this is only for talking about the positions.
As I hinted before, when we do play we use our ears and adjust the slide.
He is not using all possible positions though.
15th partial Ab pos. 2 abb. 2.
His nomeclature is close to the Scandnavian.
Ex. 7th partial G position 1.7 abbreviation #2.
11th partial Eb position 1.5 abbreviation 1 1/2.
13th partial F# postion 1.4 abbreviation b1.
Of course this is only for talking about the positions.
As I hinted before, when we do play we use our ears and adjust the slide.
He is not using all possible positions though.
15th partial Ab pos. 2 abb. 2.