Finding motivation to practice

[ttf_anonymous]

Hi all. So I'm heading into my junior year of college. I've been a part of the top ensemble there for the past two years but I have consistently been fighting muscle memory, especially when I go to practice. I've had the audition music for a few weeks now but I have not been playing well this summer especially. I know I have to practice in order to fight this but when I think about it, I'm not moved to practice. I want to actually earn my spot in this ensemble and play like I belong there. How can I find the motivation to practice?

I wanted to outline some issues that I am encountering:
My tongue. When I want to articulate, my tongue shoots up which blocks my airstream. How can I get my tongue to stay down when I'm articulating and when I am sustaining a note?
Lip slurs/flexing. I've been taught by my professor that flexing between partials takes the strain off of your upper lip and makes partial jumps cleaner. I've for some reason had difficulty with this over the summer. If everything is going right for me, I'm able to flex. Any flex users that have an suggestions for what I can do to regain it?
Embouchure: I have an upstream embouchure (thank you Doug Elliot for telling me that) and I'm not sure whether or not I'm firming it properly. I've never really been taught about my embouchure before. When I go to articulate a note, my embouchure moves slightly and  can throw me off. When I tongue multiple notes, my lower lip especially likes to move and that makes my articulations sloppy. Are there any tips to help strengthen/make my embouchure more steady and secure as well as to keep my lips from moving when tonguing?

Thank you for taking the time to read these questions and long post. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I am going to video myself to see if I can identify more issues that way. You can dm me as well with any tips that you have.

[ttf_savio]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMMy tongue. When I want to articulate, my tongue shoots up which blocks my airstream. How can I get my tongue to stay down when I'm articulating and when I am sustaining a note?


I think the clue is to open the throat. I had a problem with some noise from my throat and I just focused on open my throat and it helped. Thought it should be difficult to get rid of, but it was not.

Long notes can help the embouchure and everything else, but I'm not an expert on technical aspects. I see some tell to do it, some advice not to do it. Maybe it depends, but I always do it to feel the sound and control the sound. All dynamics, crescendo, decrescendo.

Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PM How can I find the motivation to practice?


I dont know, my motivation is just that I like to play the trombone. I think you find it inside your self if you look? Dont be too hard against you self. Its often one step back and then two forwards. Allow yourself to have some bad days and then some good days. Always try everyday! The clue is never give up and enjoy every little nice note that pops out now and then! We are not robots any of us....

Leif

[ttf_FlamingRain]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMHi all. So I'm heading into my junior year of college. I've been a part of the top ensemble there for the past two years but I have consistently been fighting muscle memory, especially when I go to practice. I've had the audition music for a few weeks now but I have not been playing well this summer especially. I know I have to practice in order to fight this but when I think about it, I'm not moved to practice. I want to actually earn my spot in this ensemble and play like I belong there. How can I find the motivation to practice?

I wanted to outline some issues that I am encountering:
My tongue. When I want to articulate, my tongue shoots up which blocks my airstream. How can I get my tongue to stay down when I'm articulating and when I am sustaining a note?
Lip slurs/flexing. I've been taught by my professor that flexing between partials takes the strain off of your upper lip and makes partial jumps cleaner. I've for some reason had difficulty with this over the summer. If everything is going right for me, I'm able to flex. Any flex users that have an suggestions for what I can do to regain it?
Embouchure: I have an upstream embouchure (thank you Doug Elliot for telling me that) and I'm not sure whether or not I'm firming it properly. I've never really been taught about my embouchure before. When I go to articulate a note, my embouchure moves slightly and  can throw me off. When I tongue multiple notes, my lower lip especially likes to move and that makes my articulations sloppy. Are there any tips to help strengthen/make my embouchure more steady and secure as well as to keep my lips from moving when tonguing?

Thank you for taking the time to read these questions and long post. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I am going to video myself to see if I can identify more issues that way. You can dm me as well with any tips that you have.


I'm sure Doug will come along and chime in with a more experienced comment but here's mine:

You said "your embouchure moves when you articulate a note", for me I had a similar problem that I actually addressed in the first lesson with Doug, and what was helpful was we moved the tongue to a higher position in my mouth on contact.  It is supposed to interrupt the air for a millisecond after all, but tonguing higher keeps me from accidentally tonguing between my teeth and my lips.

It was the tonguing between the teeth and lips that was causing articulation and flexibility problems because it interrupts my chops and ergo, it was one of the reasons I had no stability when tonguing or playing fast passages. That is a bad habit that I had got into that I still have to keep in check every now and then.

[ttf_robcat2075]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMHow can I find the motivation to practice?

Go mow the lawn, clean out the cat box, spend the night in the ER waiting for someone to be "stabilized"... trombone playing won't seem so bad.

[ttf_Terraplane8Bob]

When playing in The National Ballet Orchestra I remember seeing a dancer doing her warm up routine.  She wore a sweatshirt with a drawing of Peanuts' favorite Beagle, "Snoopy" spinning in a pirouette with the caption underneath : "To Dance Is To Live -- To Live Is To Dance".  The message was always very clear to me ---- if you have no passion [motivation] for what you are doing -- don't do it !  If you have other interests that command your attention, perhaps THAT is what you should be pursuing.  If you have no goal in mind, you will never arrive at it.  If you've ever tucked a violin under your chin and attempted to draw a beautiful sound out of it, you will have great respect for our friends in the "Wire Choir" who had the patience [read as : Passion, motivation, and dedication] to transcend the obstacles encountered in playing such a difficult instrument and the years required to do it. I often wondered how they could stand to listen to themselves until that one day when it all comes together and the effort pays off. If you don't see those characteristics in yourself, save yourself a lot of angst and follow whatever it is that draws your attention away from playing the trombone. There are legions of players who can't wait to throw themselves into the battle to draw a beautiful sound out of that cantankerous piece of machinery that we have chosen to master.  If you can't rise to the challenge, consider another path and save yourself a lot of grief.  In the smorgasbord of life, trombone playing ain't no picnic !  Just sayin' !   Cheers !!    Bob

[ttf_bigbassbone1]

I found motivation  (And still do!) To practice in a big way out of fear... I knew that if I wasn't practicing, someone else who wanted opportunities and work that I was hoping to get, would be practicing.
It makes no sense, but it would bother me that when I went to sleep I knew there were people on the other side of the world waking up and having the opportunity to practice while I was asleep!

I don't know if that is helpful for you, or what you plan to do with your trombone playing in the future, but I think it's worth remembering that every time you don't practice, someone else does and will more than likely figure out how to do something on their instrument that you cannot. Which could mean them getting an offer or opportunity that you really wanted or deserve. Why take the risk? Practice so you can be the best version of yourself possible.

[ttf_Nanook]

I'm only 19 months into my journey to learn this confounded instrument...When I took this challenge on, my instructor told me to give him 4 years and he'd make a player out of me.(Man does he have his work cut out for himself).Many here have suggested to enjoy the journey, and that is certainly advice I have appreciated. During one of my most recent periods of frustration, my instructor told me to stop trying so hard and to have fun, relax and let it happen...Nothing seems to happen on our timetable... Learning an instrument it very, very difficult Period...I commend anyone who has mastered one.

[ttf_baileyman]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PM...How can I find the motivation to practice? ...
sabutin has a random routine for creating exercised that cover every base.  It's a great way to keep motivated since you have no idea what's coming next!



Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMI wanted to outline some issues that I am encountering:
My tongue. When I want to articulate, my tongue shoots up which blocks my airstream. How can I get my tongue to stay down when I'm articulating and when I am sustaining a note?
Breath attack.  Start a note just by blowing.  After the note gets going you can observe what's happening with the tongue. 


Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMLip slurs/flexing. I've been taught by my professor that flexing between partials takes the strain off of your upper lip and makes partial jumps cleaner. I've for some reason had difficulty with this over the summer. If everything is going right for me, I'm able to flex. Any flex users that have an suggestions for what I can do to regain it?
You can change partials by changing air, by changing lips, or by changing tongue position.  After you solve the articulation problem above, start paying attention to tongue and pitch. 


Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PMEmbouchure: I have an upstream embouchure (thank you Doug Elliot for telling me that) and I'm not sure whether or not I'm firming it properly. I've never really been taught about my embouchure before. When I go to articulate a note, my embouchure moves slightly and  can throw me off. When I tongue multiple notes, my lower lip especially likes to move and that makes my articulations sloppy. Are there any tips to help strengthen/make my embouchure more steady and secure as well as to keep my lips from moving when tonguing?
Try breath attacks again, as the tongue is out of it.  When problems show up, try to simplify everything. 

[ttf_BillO]

Do you want to play well?

My motivation is to be the best trombonist in my pond.  I'm a far cry from that right now, but the concept drives me forward.  I was once the big fish. It felt good.  I want to be there again, so I spend 3+ hours a day on average at it.

Set a goal, work towards it.

PS:
When you reach that goal, be sure to set another...

[ttf_anonymous]

Practicing trombone is just like working out - you aren't always going to be motivated but you do it because it's a habit.  I like playing horn, however, there are days when I don't feel like it.  I like lifting weights but there are days when I don't feel like that either.  The secret is consistency.  If you want to improve your trombone you have to play just like you have to lift to be strong.

Of course it doesn't help to practice things wrong so you ought to listen to the guys who know something about technique (not me).  The only advice I can give you is to practice - particularly when you aren't motivated.

[ttf_harrison.t.reed]

Motivation to practice? If you will be relying on music to put bread on the table?

 

If not? Don't practice! There's no real reason to beyond what you want to get out of music.

[ttf_Le.Tromboniste]

My two cents on this. I really, really don't buy into the whole "if practicing doesn't motivate you in and of itself, then you're just not passionate enough about playing the instrument". This is a widespread and IMHO very toxic view. Because the music education world and the orchestral culture values technical proficiency as the only thing that really counts doesn't mean it should be true. Because  some guys decided decades ago that becoming a trombone-playing robot would be the definition of success doesn't mean you have to follow that.

Some people like to have fear of failure and intense competitiveness be their source of motivation. That's good for them if it's the case. That doesn't mean it has to be true for all of us, and practicing doesn't HAVE to feel like a chore if you don't want it to.

Pure technical exercices and fundamentals and and a highly structured practice routine will make you master the instrument faster, but they can also drive you crazy and make you quit playing altogether. And although it might make you a more proficient trombone player, it won't make you a more interesting musician or artist. That will come from elsewhere.

 There is that strange notion in some musical institutions that those who quit failed, or "didn't make it". What if it's the other way around? What if it's the institution that fails them?

The music world is not about winning an audition for a major symphony and being able to play every orchestral excerpt to perfection. I would be surprised if it ever truly was, but it certainly isn't anymore now. The vast majority of us need a much more varied skillset to succeed than what it takes to win an audition. 

There is no shame in not being motivated every single day, and there is no shame in accepting that some days, you just want to play nice music and not worry about technical stuff. And there's also no shame in, someday, accepting that you're good at some things and less at others, and that you can create the path you want for yourself that fits what you're good at. Your definition of success doesn't have to be the same pre-digested, regurgitated crap that many music schools (and many teachers) push onto you.

I've seen so many professional orchestral musicians who hate most of their colleagues, hate every conductor they work with, hate half the music they play, don't particularly like teaching and aren't particularly good at it but do it anyway because that's what's expected of a principal player, and it does flatter their ego to have power over some 20-something kids like us and repeat the same toxic educational patterns as they went through with their teachers decades ago...

Please do yourself a favor and don't become one of those guys.


It has to be about the love of music, always. There's no universal recipe. Do whatever it takes for YOU to feel that love of music, and feel fulfilled. If it's practicing like crazy until your brain is fried everyday and becoming the most technically proficient player you can be, then great, do that! But if it isn't, don't feel bad that it isn't.

[ttf_Nanook]

Le... Agree Nicely stated

[ttf_Ellrod]

My $.02. There are two ways to get someone to do something: the carrot and the stick.

You can use the stick to beat yourself over the head: you're not practicing enough, other people are practicing more, becoming better players, winning the auditions you want to win.

Or you can use the carrot to reward yourself: you've come a long way, you've become a very good player, and you now have the extremely rare opportunity - very few people get to do this - to perform wonderful music at a high level. At this point in my life (I'm 62) even the kids who bullied me on my way to trombone lessons might be envious. Particularly the ones in jail.

So why not give yourself a little treat and go practice for an hour? Then get some ice cream.

[ttf_bonesmarsh]

Maximilien, great post. Here is a cute story from McGill in the early 80s. My buddy owned an Elkhart 88H. He'd spend his days playing duets with Alain Trudel while Trudel was principal in Montreal and loved his own 88H.
Another friend ended up in McGill-- he played an Abilene 88H. One day he tried the Elkhart 88H and flew into a rage. A psychotic rage. He took his Abilene 88H and beat it to death against a metal locker at McGill. He quit the horn. Because he didn't own a great Elkhart horn.
  He was bound to quit sooner or later anyway, no crime there.

Googleman 225, you're looking at the whole thing from an incredibly small perspective. Where do you see yourself when you're age 95? How are you going to spend the next 75 years? Will it matter where you were playing now, and in which chair in which ensemble, in 75 years time?
Take the steps NOW to put you on a path to happiness for the next 75 years. Forget the ensemble now.
Okay, lets look a bit closer to the present--- where are you going to be in only 4 years? Which ensemble? Stream your efforts for a lifetime of learning and a lifetime of enjoyment, not a shortsighted goal of one chair in the immediate future.

[ttf_Le.Tromboniste]

Quote from: bonesmarsh on Jul 25, 2017, 01:25PMMaximilien, great post. Here is a cute story from McGill in the early 80s. My buddy owned an Elkhart 88H. He'd spend his days playing duets with Alain Trudel while Trudel was principal in Montreal and loved his own 88H.
Another friend ended up in McGill-- he played an Abilene 88H. One day he tried the Elkhart 88H and flew into a rage. A psychotic rage. He took his Abilene 88H and beat it to death against a metal locker at McGill. He quit the horn. Because he didn't own a great Elkhart horn.
  He was bound to quit sooner or later anyway, no crime there.

Yeah probably bound to quit sooner or later. Unfortunately not always the case. I know quite a few trombonists (let alone musicians in general) that ended up quitting music - not because they weren't good or didn't have the potential, or the passion, but because they didn't "fit" in the (very orchestral audition-oriented) system. When I talk with them, I consider myself very lucky to have studied with a teacher who understands that winning an audition is not how most of his students will succeed in music (especially since it's not how he succeeded himself), and was very encouraging of my conductor endeavours, and later directed me towards the best sackbut teacher.

Quote from: bonesmarsh on Jul 25, 2017, 01:25PMwhile Trudel was principal in Montreal
I'm fairly sure Trudel was never principal in Montreal. It was of course before I was even born, but as far as I know, Dave Martin was filling in as principal in 82-83 before Alessi won the job, and then again between Alessi and Jeff Budin. Trudel was 17 and subbed a few times.

[ttf_bonesmarsh]

Thanks for the clarification about Alain. At his masterclass-- one of the many by him I attended-- he mentioned that he got the work with the MSO as principal straight from gigging with a funk/disco/dance band where he got his chops paying VALVE trombone. He learned slide in a matter of days to win the MSO gig.

[ttf_Dixieland57]

Don't have read the entire conversation, but about motivation, if you play for some years, sometimes it's possible to have a down motivation period, 2 weeks or 1 month, try practicing in other environements, outside in a park, try learning differents types of things, play differents styles.

[ttf_Le.Tromboniste]

Quote from: bonesmarsh on Yesterday at 05:08 AMThanks for the clarification about Alain. At his masterclass-- one of the many by him I attended-- he mentioned that he got the work with the MSO as principal straight from gigging with a funk/disco/dance band where he got his chops paying VALVE trombone. He learned slide in a matter of days to win the MSO gig.

Just found an interview (in French) where he told his story in more detail. I'll summarize it here because it's actually pertinent to the motivation conversation. 

He's from one of the poorest districts in Montreal, his mom was a former cabaret singer, his dead-beat dad was a jazz drummer. He got into a community brass band which aimed at encouraging poor kids to play music and stay in school, using music as a springboard out of poverty, or at least, the street. He started playing bar gigs on his valve trombone to help his mother pay rent so they wouldn't end up on the street (talk about a reason to practice!)

Then his school closed and he moved to another high school, which had (and still has today) the best, most intensive orchestra immersion program in Québec (nowadays they spend about 5 hours a day in rehearsal, sectionals, lessons or practice room time - it was probably even more back then), and took classes at the Conservatoire.

(My piano teacher in college was at the Conservatoire the same time as he was - apparently rumour had it back then that he would often practice in his room until he was so tired that he collapsed in his bed... With his horn still in his hands!)

He took the OSM audition right out of high school, when he was 17, and made it to the finals. Nobody won but David Martin became the main sub, and Trudel was the next call, until Alessi won the audition one or two years later. Trudel got invited to fill in for principal in Barcelona, won the OSM's annual national solo competition (first of only two trombonists to have ever done that - the other is Keith Dyrda, seems like you have to be a teen prodigy to win that as a trombone player ).

Then he played (mostly solo) concerts every other night for 20 years, got cancer that went undetected until it was phase 4 and they had to remove 15 pounds of cancerous flesh out of his abdomen. But the guy still couldn't wait to go back to music.

[ttf_Googleman225]

Hi again. Thank you for your advice. I agree that part of my issue is mentally. I can tend to be rather critical and focus on my bad days rather than a good one. I also can over think the technical aspect and frustrate myself. I think if I can learn to simply play my horn and not focus on mistakes I'll get the fun back. Trombone playing isn't my major but I love making music.

I've had a free lesson with Doug before last year and he told me I had an upstream embouchure so I have been playing more on my bottom lip now. I think what I should focus on a lot is my tongue and what it is doing. If I can keep my airstream (throat) open while keeping my tongue out of the way, that might solve some issues. I can play mostly relaxed now although I sometimes tense up with my lips when going up high.

[ttf_Le.Tromboniste]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Jul 29, 2017, 06:37PMI think what I should focus on a lot is my tongue and what it is doing. If I can keep my airstream (throat) open while keeping my tongue out of the way, that might solve some issues. I can play mostly relaxed now although I sometimes tense up with my lips when going up high.



Quote from: Googleman225 on Jul 29, 2017, 06:37PMI also can over think the technical aspect and frustrate myself.


 

[ttf_Le.Tromboniste]

Quote from: Googleman225 on Jul 29, 2017, 06:37PMI think what I should focus on a lot is my tongue and what it is doing. If I can keep my airstream (throat) open while keeping my tongue out of the way, that might solve some issues. I can play mostly relaxed now although I sometimes tense up with my lips when going up high.



Quote from: Googleman225 on Jul 29, 2017, 06:37PMI also can over think the technical aspect and frustrate myself.