Mouthpiece Versatility

[TromboneSam]

Hey y’all,

So I play mostly jazz - a good mix of combo, horn section, and big band playing.

Been loving my Greg Black custom over the last year and a half. It’s a copy of my favorite Bach 7C rim and cup, with the throat/backbore opened to .234”. I’m super nimble on it, and my tone is decently warm but cuts like a laser consistently. It’s the regular weight and pretty much no matter how much I push it the tone stays the same.

I’ve been trying out a Pickett Dease Clarity recently and I love the warmth I’m getting from it - it’s based on a vintage Bach 6 1/2 AL from what I’ve read. It is lighter weight than the Greg Black by about .7oz, but supposedly heavier than a Bach, but I’m not quite as nimble on it because I’m not used to the rim size/shape. I’ve found that based on how much I push or change my air, I can achieve different sounds that cut and blend accordingly, making it super versatile for multiple playing situations.

What factors make for the versatility or consistency in sound from a mouthpiece? From there, if I wanted the same versatility from the Greg Black that I’m getting from the Pickett, what would need to change? The weight? The cup? The throat/backbore? I want to retain the comfort that I have from the rim so that I can keep my dexterity, or is it not so much tied to rim profile, but diameter?

[Doug Elliott]

Too many variables for a definitive answer, but in general the smaller the rim size (inner diameter), the less versatile it will be regardless of anything else.

[Rusty]

There are a lot of factors to determine why a mouthpiece plays as it does, as Doug mentions, and they should be looked at as a design as a whole, but I’d say in your case, and having played Greg’s small shank pieces, I think the weight may be what is somewhat limiting your ability to colour and shape the sound and attacks. For me, GB in regular weight have a distinct weight of sound and attack that many people love, but you feel more locked into that sound, the ‘laser’ like feeling you talk of. The slots are tighter and they seem to have a more projecting core of sound.

I’ve played both the 6c and 7c in both regular and L lightweight versions, and moving to the L blank, you notice slightly wider and more fluid slotting, and a slightly lighter more nimble sound, with slightly more immediate attacks. To me they still have the GB character to the sound and respond really well, but are still actually quite heavy mouthpieces, certainly heavier than a classic Bach.

For reference:
GB 6C regular - 204g
GB 6C L - 194g
Reeves 11c - 158g
Yamaha Nils - 163g
Bach 9 - 158g
DE MT C+ - 147g

All the lighter pieces there I find I’m able to colour the sound a little more easily, which may make it seem more versatile to match various situations. But a lot of it will be down to player input too, and the equipment may just make things more or less easier.

With your custom piece, I wonder if you could get closer to that feeling of versatility of the Pickett with a lighter blank and perhaps a slightly opened up throat for a little less resistance or more room to move your air how you want. The guys at Greg Black or Pickett would have some ideas for sure!

[TromboneSam]

Thanks Doug and Rusty! Great info to have.

I recently picked up a Giardinelli 5M, which is supposed to pretty much split the difference of my other mouthpieces in most aspects. 25mm rim with .234” bore. Not sure of the weight but feels pretty light. Will let y’all know what I find out about its playing.

[TromboneSam]

Turns out the 5M I picked up is likely mis-stamped. Cup/rim are MUCH smaller than my Bach 7C. Feels almost like a Bach 12 or smaller. Going to be trading the piece back to the seller and trading for a Giardinelli 5C which looks much bigger in pictures, and probably a lot truer to size. I'll also be picking up a vintage Giardinelli 5D underpart, with hopes of getting a rim or two made for it.

I know many makers have inconsistencies, but this one seems fairly egregious. Wish I had a caliper to measure.

Has anyone else run into a discrepancy like this with Giardinelli before?

[BGuttman]

While Giardinelli used Bach-like numbers, they do not correspond. I had a Giardinelli 2 part 5M that was not anything like a Bach 5. I was able to pair the underpart with an Elliott MT102 rim to make a decent mouthpiece for my alto.

[Doug Elliott]

The 5's and 6's were pretty inconsistent. My rims screw on but make it a little deeper.
A couple of players have used 5M underparts with my rims - it seems to work well that way and you have a choice of inside diameters.

[Aznguyy]

Turns out the 5M I picked up is likely mis-stamped. Cup/rim are MUCH smaller than my Bach 7C. Feels almost like a Bach 12 or smaller. Going to be trading the piece back to the buyer and trading for a Giardinelli 5C which looks much bigger in pictures, and probably a lot truer to size. I'll also be picking up a vintage Giardinelli 5D underpart, with hopes of getting a rim or two made for it.

I know many makers have inconsistencies, but this one seems fairly egregious. Wish I had a caliper to measure.

Has anyone else run into a discrepancy like this with Giardinelli before?

the M cups are indeed much smaller than Bach cups. Small cup and big bore. I use a 4M two piece when I have loud horn sections stuff and it works great in keeping up with the trumpets. I would try going with Doug's suggestion and using his rim with the 5M bottom. it added some cup volume while keep the feel of the M cup. If you use Doug's rim on the 5D, the cup becomes slightly bigger than the Bach C cup.

[baileyman]

Some here prolly know better, but the guys in Hoyt's garage got tons of versatiity out of 12c and 11c pieces.

[Juantxetbone]

In my opinion, mouthpieces are like a duvet. If you pull it to one side, your partner ends up uncovered. You need to find the balance and make adjustments. The holy grail doesn't exist, but there is a comfortable place where you can work on whatever you need.