Need Trombone purchase advice!

[Ramardpenovi]

Hello everyone, i'm about to upgrade from my current yamaha trombone and i would like to ask for some advice, since i played for 10 years now and i don't know much when it comes to buying a new instrument, so i need some help from people that knows well about trombones.

I'm a full jazz player, big band, combo and solo. (Mostly 1940s big bands) so my obvious choice would be a small bore tenor, i only played two instruments in my entire trombone career and my current is a Yamaha 354, 500. Bore that i bought brand new 8 years ago.

I would like something smaller for the music i play, After some months of research these are my 3 options (feel free to suggest any other models)

1. Bach NY Model 6: I ve done a lot of research on this one, and for what i found i think is the most suitable for me, they are 485. Bore and made with good quality, i ve heard that they are excellent for lead playing and ballads. From what i understand there are various variants from different years, with some changes like the bell or leadpipes but i don't know how that impacts the instrument.
Problem with these is that they are very hard to find (they are above 1400$), and most of them are beaten up with the laquer completely gone or full of dents. Main concern is the slide action.

2. King 2B: obvious choice for this setting, i like this one horn too and it has been the standard for jazz playing for almost a century, although i'm a bit septical about the dual bore thing and these are also very expensive alrhough not that hard to find, the new ones i ve veard that they are not the same quality as the liberty models.
I ve heard there is also a king "liberty" single bore but i know nothing about it. Or other king 1920s models.

3. Yamaha 897z: Since i play a Yamaha instrument and so far it has been very good, i consider that their professional model could be a good option, these are new instruments so, slides are better and most of them are in good condition both playability and estetic. But i'm not sure if this one can compare to the old King and Bach instruments.

Thank you for reading, feel completely free to add anything you want.

[Posaunus]

All good choices, and all available (occasionally) used in good condition and at reasonable prices.
Check out the TromboneChat Classifieds.

Full disclosure: I'm a long-time fan of the King 2B.

[JohnL]

All of them are good choices, but trombones are a lot like shoes - what might be the best choice for one person might be a terrible choice for someone else, and the only way to find out is to put on a pair and go for a walk.

What is it about the 354 that isn't doing it for you?

[Doug Elliott]

I played a 354 professionally for many years. Nothing wrong with it.

[Ramardpenovi]

I played a 354 professionally for many years. Nothing wrong with it.

What is it about the 354 that isn't doing it for you?

I know that most difference in sound comes from the mouthpiece and practice, (and i think the leadpipe) but i feel the overtones can be better especially above high Ab, its a 500. Its not the smallest horn so it think that could be improved. Especially for lead playing.

Also the tuning aspect can sometimes get tricky, mostly when it's a hot, humid summer day. Also in regards to tuning, there some notes like F3, F4, High D and C in first, and high Eb in 3rd which don't feel "right" there are frecuently out of tune.

Don't Get me wrong, The YSL 354 is an excellent horn for the price and this 8 years playing it i felt great, but i'm aware that is not in the pro range trombone. And maybe all things said above could improve with a pro horn.

[hyperbolica]

Nothing wrong with any of those horns. My preference is the Bach NY 6. I recently sold a vii version for a friend. It was an amazing horn. Added a 4th on top of my range. What other NY Bach could you get for $1500? None. It's a bargain with or without the lacquer. If they seem rare it's only because nobody wants to sell a NY Bach for $1k. They're around, and you can pay less than $1500 for a player.

I would add a Conn 24h to your list. You can get those even cheaper. Heavier horn, probably projects a little better than the Bach. If you can get a 1920s vintage, replace the inner slides on it, it's a killer lead axe.

And then there's the Rath R12 if you want to spend some money. Great horns.

[Ramardpenovi]

Nothing wrong with any of those horns. My preference is the Bach NY 6. I recently sold a vii version for a friend. It was an amazing horn. Added a 4th on top of my range. What other NY Bach could you get for $1500? None. It's a bargain with or without the lacquer. If they seem rare it's only because nobody wants to sell a NY Bach for $1k. They're around, and you can pay less than $1500 for a player.

I would add a Conn 24h to your list. You can get those even cheaper. Heavier horn, probably projects a little better than the Bach. If you can get a 1920s vintage, replace the inner slides on it, it's a killer lead axe.

And then there's the Rath R12 if you want to spend some money. Great horns.

Thank you

Very interesting information for the Model 6, i don't know how much of a big deal is the laquer wear, especially on the slide.

Note taken on the Conn 24h i saw that horn too on some websites, although they all were some kind of strange model called "Ballroom" which supposedly changes the bell messing up the slide positions. (I'm not sure) if you know what that meams it could be very helpful.

[hyperbolica]

.

Note taken on the Conn 24h i saw that horn too on some websites, although they all were some kind of strange model called "Ballroom" which supposedly changes the bell messing up the slide positions. (I'm not sure) if you know what that meams it could be very helpful.

The 24h bell is closer to the mouthpiece so that you can put mutes in more easily.

If you reference the bell with your hand , you only do it for 3rd position. It's better to play by muscle memory so your arm angle (and ears) is how you find positions.

It's not hard to pick up a 24h and just play it.

[Briande]

Have you tried a vintage Conn 6H or Conn 48H? I had a 2B and a 3B sold them both once I discovered the 48H. (6H is also really good)

[RJMason]

I wouldn’t go with the Bach 6 or 24H. While they fit the 1940s big band style, they’re old, inconsistent, and you’ll likely outgrow the 7-inch bell.

The King 2B is a better option. It is versatile, timeless, and fits the style with younger vintages generally in better condition. It’ll adapt better if your needs evolve over the next decade.

I also really like the Yamaha Z trombones or the older 697 and 695 pro models. Ideally, try them in person to see what feels right. With patience, you could own all three for less than a new Custom Z or Rath.

I don’t play King horns myself (I use Yamaha, Conn, and Bach), but the 2B feels like the smartest move. It complements your 354 while offering something distinct.

[BurckhardtS]

I played a 354 professionally for many years. Nothing wrong with it.

I have my 3BF now that I use for most of my jazz/commercial work now, but I took my 354 on an international tour w/ playing lead on a big band earlier this year.

It's still a trombone!!!!

[PJones]

It’s always great to do research to see what horns you believe may click with you and what other players in a similar position you are in are playing. However, when I went shopping for my current trombone (Bach 42AF) I thought of the scene from Harry Potter where he is wand shopping. You don’t really choose the trombone but the trombone chooses you. If you are able I would try to see if there’s somewhere you can try these horns. I remember when I bought my horn I said I hated Bachs and I hated Thayer valves but that completely changed when I tried the Bach 42AF. You really won’t know what you’ll like until you play it.

[Pezza]

It’s always great to do research to see what horns you believe may click with you and what other players in a similar position you are in are playing. However, when I went shopping for my current trombone (Bach 42AF) I thought of the scene from Harry Potter where he is wand shopping. You don’t really choose the trombone but the trombone chooses you. If you are able I would try to see if there’s somewhere you can try these horns. I remember when I bought my horn I said I hated Bachs and I hated Thayer valves but that completely changed when I tried the Bach 42AF. You really won’t know what you’ll like until you play it.

Too true.
I went shopping for a bass, expecting to get a Conn. Walked out with a Bach 50!