Different learning philosophies

[tbdana]

What's your philosophy or approach to learning to play the trombone? I'm sure there are diverse valid philosophies out there. I'd like to hear 'em so I can steal ideas that appeal to me.

In my limited exposure to learning, I have settled on an approach that is a pragmatic three-step one:

First, I want to get a decent sound, and one that I personally like. I don't change my sound to suit others, I use one I think is good and is "me."

Second, I want to develop a single embouchure that allows me to play from the bottom of the horn to the top without shifts or embouchure changes. I also want an embouchure that will prevent fatigue and maximize flexibility, and for me that's one where I use only enough mouthpiece pressure to maintain a seal and no more.

Third, is technique. That step is the whole ball of wax, and relates predominantly to range, flexibility and speed. It means developing the ability to be agile, nimble, graceful and lithe over the entire range of the horn, from pedals to double high Bb. The first two steps are merely foundational to this third one. To me, the most important thing about learning to play the trombone is to become so agile on it that you never have to struggle; so agile that playing in the top or bottom of the range is as easy as playing in the middle range. And it means being able to do everything very quickly and with grace, like a clarinetist, violinist, or trumpeter. If you can fly all over the horn, you can play anything you're asked to play. Great technique is the holy grail. You must be able to play the entire instrument in order to not be limited by it. The best compliment I ever get is when someone says, "You make it sound effortless." That's when you know you're there.

That's my philosophy. It's a pragmatic approach that emphasizes being nimble across the entire instrument. But it is a stern task master. It requires seriousness and dedication without there ever being a "good enough," and that might be too much for a lot of casual trombonists. What can I say? I'm my own worst enemy.

What's yours? Perhaps for you sound is the holy grail. Maybe you believe long tones are the path to heaven. What other approaches are there out in TC Land?

[Doug Elliott]

All of those are obviously great desires and outcomes, but I wouldn't describe any of them as an "approach"

[tbdana]

All of those are obviously great desires and outcomes, but I wouldn't describe any of them as an "approach"

Okay. Then what's your approach? Like I said, my goal here is to steal everyone's good ideas. I guess I was just describing my philosophy, and not getting into the weeds of describing how to get from Point A to Point B on every issue. Just wanted to start a discussion.

[Kdanielsen]

Start with what you can do. (Norman Bolter I think?)

Move as little as possible but as much as necessary. (James Markey)

Do things on purpose, not by accident.

Be your own teacher, but you might not have to reinvent the wheel.

[VJOFan]

A learning philosophy would most likely be a set of beliefs about how learning occurs, what learning is and how to identify learning. Out of that could come a process for more effective learning. Although , a lot of philosophy is happy to just keep asking questions and not worry about a final answer.

And that may be a valid approach to learning a musical instrument: just keep asking questions of your playing. Why does something work/not work? What needs to be accomplished and what paths are there to that goal?

I know I was an avoider of analysis when I was young and in the thick of striving to be great. That attitude has changed considerably to the point I am happy to spend time practicing an interval until I understand what I’m doing to make that jump and what things are interfering with doing it cleanly.

[imsevimse]

The first is: "I refuse to accept I have limitations" - Actually I was rather frustrated when I came up with that one. Some students have a habit to comment their mistakes and say "No", "Arrgh" or they swear at themselves in anger. I guess I had done all that so I was real frustrated and shouted. "I refuse to accept my limitations" and my grandfather started to laugh. I didn't understand what was so funny. This was when I was in my teens.

The second is: "Be your own best teacher"

The third is: Try everything. Use what works"

. .and sound is what's most important. What I think

/Tom

[afugate]

Start with what you can do. (Norman Bolter I think?)

Move as little as possible but as much as necessary. (James Markey)

Do things on purpose, not by accident.

Be your own teacher, but you might not have to reinvent the wheel.

I like all of the thoughts being shared by others. For this one, I would add
Pay attention to your accidents.

Sometimes accidents lead to good things.

--Andy in OKC

[Doug Elliott]

Yes. When I was young, if I made a mistake, maybe like learning a piece with a wrong note, instead of simply correcting it I would play it both ways so I would learn the difference. Everybody told me not to do that, but it worked for me.

[Kdanielsen]

Yes. When I was young, if I made a mistake, maybe like learning a piece with a wrong note, instead of simply correcting it I would play it both ways so I would learn the difference. Everybody told me not to do that, but it worked for me.

I've found that this is a good approach to help students with glottal stop issues. I told them to learn to do it on purpose, which makes it easier to not do it, or (even better) do something else on purpose.

[tbdana]

I was one of those kids who every time I would make a mistake I would say, "No," and stop playing. That was the hardest habit to break. It was almost impossible because I had trained my brain to stop working (as little as it does even at its best) when I made a mistake so I was physically unable to just keep playing. I cured it by playing things wrong on purpose and then recovering and continuing to play. Eventually I could keep playing when I made a real mistake. But I swear, it was so difficult it was like quitting heroin.

[imsevimse]

I was one of those kids who every time I would make a mistake I would say, "No," and stop playing. That was the hardest habit to break. It was almost impossible because I had trained my brain to stop working (as little as it does even at its best) when I made a mistake so I was physically unable to just keep playing. I cured it by playing things wrong on purpose and then recovering and continuing to play. Eventually I could keep playing when I made a real mistake. But I swear, it was so difficult it was like quitting heroin.

I cured it too, but have a friend who still comments his faults with "no" or other noises. It's very annoying, especially in a concert situation and I have told him many times. I think you can see a small twitch in my eybrow when I do a mistake nowdays and that's all. I have done to many errors and do not need to tell others each time it happens. Many cases no one notice the small error but a strange yell if loud enough will not go unnoticed, even if it does not reach first row it is not professional at all.

/Tom

[tbdana]

I cured it too, but have a friend who still comments his faults with "no" or other noises. It's very annoying, especially in a concert situation and I have told him many times. I think you can see a small twitch in my eybrow when I do a mistake nowdays and thats all. I have done to many errors and do not need to tell others each time it happens. Many cases no one notice the small error but a strange yell will not go unnoticed. Often not loud enough to reach first row but not professional at all.

/Tom

Last night in Les Miz I had a brain fart and depressed the trigger on a note I shouldn't have, followed by letting off the trigger on the next note when I should have been depressing it. As you might guess it sounded horrible, and it was in a really exposed spot (solo bass trombone line in "Master of the House")! I let out a frustrated "Argh!" in the orchestra pit that the trumpet player sitting next to me heard but probably no one else. I don't mind making mistakes. I do mind just being stupid, and I expressed it.

Guess I'm not professional about it and I'm okay with that.

[AndrewMeronek]

Maybe a couple of things that I consider my "approach":

Music requires developing a pretty large encyclopedia of knowledge: what tunes sound like, what rhythms look like on a page, stylistic best practices, etc. so part of doing music is simply continuing to expand my encyclopedia.

I think it's tough for a lot of people, but often the best way to fix tough problems is to do things that feel really uncomfortable (not health-hazard wise, just deliberately breaking mental and muscle memory) and see what happens.

An example for myself: I played with a lot of other brass players who would tend to place notes just a bit behind the beat, and I picked up that tendency. A while ago, in a masterclass I got called out on that, and I had a really hard time mentally adjusting and placing my attacks a bit more forward in the beat placement. So what to do? I specifically practiced moving my beat placement around A LOT in different ensembles and in practice so that I could feel how it changes things and get more control. It's still something that I have to spot-check myself from time to time, but I know I've gotten a lot better, and IMHO getting better at this alone has made me a better section lead player. It also makes it a lot easier to adjust to different ensembles (especially different rhythm sections) that each have their own way of syncing up the tempos.

[timothy42b]

What's your philosophy or approach to learning to play the trombone? I'm sure there are diverse valid philosophies out there. I'd like to hear 'em so I can steal ideas that appeal to me.

In my limited exposure to learning, I have settled on an approach that is a pragmatic three-step one:

First, I want to get a decent sound,

That is Inner Tennis, I think.

In learning any skill, you can be more focused on end result (Inner Tennis, Song and Wind, etc) or method/mechanics (Reinhardt maybe), which usually requires a little more analysis.

When you hit a golf ball, do you just visualize the ball flight and keep swinging until you get it, or do you think about grip, weight shift, kinetic chain, whatever?

[VJOFan]

Inner Game philosophy usually kicks in after the skill has been practiced. Looking at the seams of the ball as it comes gives the conscious brain something to do while your body performs the learned actions. It doesn't replace practice or analysis, but helps to separate the analysis from the performance.

[Doug Elliott]

I gave a ride to somebody who I think had never seen a stick shift. He asked "how do you know when to shift?" I said "You listen to the engine."

Playing a brass instrument is a lot like driving a stick shift.
In the beginning you have no idea what to do. Then you have to think about every step in the process - coordinating your left foot on the clutch with your right foot on the gas, with your right hand on the shift, and either watching the tachometer or listening to the engine or feeling the power curve so you know when to change gears - and then being aware of what gear you're in, in case you need to change.
It becomes automatic, inner game style, but you still have to be willing and able to turn on the analysis at a moment's notice if traffic changes.