Till Eulenspiegel

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:56 pm

Aaaah this excerpt is the death of me! The first excerpt is not my issue neither is the second, but the run, you know the run, is killing me! It either starts badly or I make it to the

# and the A line preceding is bad. And when all of the notes are there, its messy. What are your tips for Till Eulenspiegel?

Here is the excerpt: http://www.tromboneexcerpts.org/Excerpts/Strauss_Till/Strauss_Till_Tenor1_4.html

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:15 pm

Practice it so slowly that it is impossible to make a mistake. If that isn't possible, then it's fundamentals that you need. If you always biff the A, that's something separate from the excerpt that you need to work on.

ttf_jalapeno · Post by **ttf_jalapeno** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:30 pm

Slow, half speed maybe. Get it right multiple times, move up the metronome incrementally

Try without tongue, just natural slurs and gliss

Varying dynamics

Have a good time

ttf_Dombat · Post by **ttf_Dombat** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:41 am

It could be a number of issues but co-ordination between the articulation from the tongue, air and slide is often an issue. For me practicing this slowly only has an effect up to a certain tempo - then it falls apart again. In the case I work in groups of threes - play each group of three on its own then move one note along so you are covering every possible combination. After this if there are issues I will change the rhythm to dotted eigth-sixteenth-eigth. This forces your slide to co-ordinate with the tknuge. Then change this rhythm up to sixteenth-dotted eigth-eigth and variations.
Now try the original.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:23 am

I've never worked that one, not really an excerpt person.

My suggestion though would be to start at 37 on the A. Play that measure with a metronome, speed doesn't matter but needs to be steady. I'd do it at what ever speed is comfortable. I don't think speed is the problem here.

Now add one previous note at a time. Work backwards. One note before the A, in tempo. then two, three, etc.

I think what is happening is that loud low C sets your chops to a range where you'll never hit the A cleanly. But if you're concentrating on the A you can add the other notes one at a time.

ttf_Edward_Solomon · Post by **ttf_Edward_Solomon** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:27 am

If you are performing it with an orchestra, you must memorise the chromatic passage, which is impossible to play otherwise. To synchronise with the rest of the section and the conductor, who is picking up the pace throughout this passage, there is no time to rely on the notes on the page because there isn't time to read them. Learn the passage and make sure you have it memorised.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:15 am

I agree about memorizing it. Or at least having practiced it so much that the muscle memory is there. But that's the case for any excerpt, and music in general.

ttf_brucolli · Post by **ttf_brucolli** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:10 pm

Henry Charles Smith gave me a great tip years ago that really helped me with this passage.

1. accent every 1st note of the triplet
2. accent every 2nd note of the triplet
3. accent every 3rd note of the triplet

Begin slowly and gradually increase speed. If you can do all three of these near normal speed this passage should be much easier for you.
Good luck.

Bruce

ttf_trombonemetal · Post by **ttf_trombonemetal** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Quote from: brucolli on Jul 05, 2017, 01:10PMHenry Charles Smith gave me a great tip years ago that really helped me with this passage.

1. accent every 1st note of the triplet
2. accent every 2nd note of the triplet
3. accent every 3rd note of the triplet

Begin slowly and gradually increase speed. If you can do all three of these near normal speed this passage should be much easier for you.
Good luck.

Bruce

This is excellent advice for any fast excerpt. Spend an hour doing this and dotted rhythms with those licks and you will be amazed at how much it helps.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:51 pm

I read that advice as just accenting every note ...

ttf_Noahharry · Post by **ttf_Noahharry** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:25 pm

Thats what I got as well, but if it works..

ttf_Rockymountaintrombone · Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:36 pm

The idea of varying which note gets the accent when you're practicing is a way to check in on tuning and tone quality in a technical excerpt. Charlie Vernon has a similar exercise in his book for learning the William Tell. Good exercise.

I actually do like to use accents on every note, or at least a strong marcato approach while I'm playing the passage slowly. This helps to cement slide/tongue coordination - again for good intonation and solid, even tone quality. As I speed up, I like to back off on the level of articulation. A lighter approach helps with speed and accuracy, but the time spent playing marcato and slow has helped with arm muscle memory/intonation. Another tip - as you play faster, try to make your slide arm relax more. Hopefully, the slow practice will have cemented some accuracy with your slide placement, and you won't lose any of that accuracy when you relax your arm.

Jim Scott

ttf_trombonemetal · Post by **ttf_trombonemetal** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:12 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 05, 2017, 03:51PMI read that advice as just accenting every note ...

Accent only the first note of each triplet

Then accent only the second note of each triplet

Then accent only the third note of each triplet

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:47 am

Quote from: trombonemetal on Jul 05, 2017, 08:12PMAccent only the first note of each triplet

Then accent only the second note of each triplet

Then accent only the third note of each triplet

That's what I got. It's a good way to get all the notes.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:03 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Jul 06, 2017, 07:47AMThat's what I got. It's a good way to get all the notes.

That's what I got too, and it's a great approach.

I'm just not so sure we have the right root cause yet.

I had an engineer in my office this morning, trying to trouble shoot a humidity problem. He's an excellent designer due to his single minded focus, which makes him a terrible trouble shooter. (and Dunning-Kruger is well at work here!) He leaps to a diagnosis, and then attentional blindness makes him impervious to new data.

He told me he knew what the problem was and he was going to collect data to confirm it. I had a moment of weakness and interrupted him, told him he should never collect confirmatory data, he already had that - what he needed to look for was data that could refute his conclusion. Of course I made no impression. Hee, hee.

Of course the excerpt isn't quite the same scenario, yet having an idea of the correct root cause does make a difference.

ttf_GetzenBassPlayer · Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 03, 2017, 09:15AMI agree about memorizing it. Or at least having practiced it so much that the muscle memory is there. But that's the case for any excerpt, and music in general.

A lot of times, memorization is the cherry on top of the cake. This one though, it's the cake.

ttf_GetzenBassPlayer · Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jul 03, 2017, 09:15AMI agree about memorizing it. Or at least having practiced it so much that the muscle memory is there. But that's the case for any excerpt, and music in general.

A lot of times, memorization is the cherry on top of the cake. This one though, it's the cake.