Not enough air

[Kuwagatton]

Hi, I noticed whenever I play I tend to run out of air in about 4 measures. How do I know if I'm supporting enough? And is there a way to practice being able to take more air or to control it better so I could play longer? Thanks.

[tbdana]

Depending on your age, equipment, loudness, and range you're playing in, four measures can be pretty darn good. If you can get four measures on a bass trombone playing fortissimo in the trigger and pedal range, you're a rock star. So it's situational, right? But, generally, to make sure you're maximizing your potential:

You can do exercises to increase lung volume.

You can make sure you are sitting/standing correctly and maximizing each full breath (e.g., no slumped shoulders, use proper inhalation, etc.).

You can control your aperture to get the most efficient use of air. Practice narrowing your aperture as much as possible without sacrificing tone.

You can back off the loudness a little, which will give you a longer breath. Just a small reduction in dynamic level that no one but you will notice can give you more usable air.

You can learn circular breathing. And, frankly, if you can do that well, whatever breathing issues you have will cease to matter. But that's a tough skill to learn, particularly in certain registers, and especially if you don't have a nose.

You can use smaller bore equipment.

[UATrombone]

Depending on your age, equipment, loudness, and range you're playing in, four measures can be pretty darn good. If you can get four measures on a bass trombone playing fortissimo in the trigger and pedal range, you're a rock star.

I just want to add to this one more thing...
TEMPO!
4 measures in Grave or Largo isn't bad at all.
4 measures in Presto - hmm... You should work on something, as tbdana suggest.

[tbdana]

Depending on your age, equipment, loudness, and range you're playing in, four measures can be pretty darn good. If you can get four measures on a bass trombone playing fortissimo in the trigger and pedal range, you're a rock star.

I just want to add to this one more thing...
TEMPO!
4 measures in Grave or Largo isn't bad at all.
4 measures in Presto - hmm... You should work on something, as tbdana suggest.

[ghmerrill]

I've been struggling with this myself lately (age = 77). I'm not sure whether I've lost a step in terms of sustained notes in the low range, or it's just much more difficult to do that on bass trombone than on tuba. Very likely, both of these are in play (no pun intended -- well, not much of one).

If you can get four measures on a bass trombone playing fortissimo in the trigger and pedal range, you're a rock star.

Yeah. I'm good for about two measures (slow tempo) in that range now. Really disappointing and irritating. A more efficient mouthpiece (or shank/backbore) helps, but not a huge amount.

You can do exercises to increase lung volume.

Definitely worth doing, but works only up to a point. I've found that the best exercise for this is lap swimming.

You can back off the loudness a little, which will give you a longer breath. Just a small reduction in dynamic level that no one but you will notice can give you more usable air.

I think this is one of the best ideas. First, it may be unavoidable. But also, on bass trombone you often don't need to hammer the volume to the wall in order to get the effect you want. Tone quality and timbre can matter more in being heard than pure volume may. And it's a lot better to be heard with good quality and pitch than with über-volume. This is what I'm focusing on now.

You can learn circular breathing.

I used to be able to do that pretty easily on tuba. I've tried it on bass trombone and failed miserably. Certainly I've lost the touch to some degree, but I think it's just a lot harder on bass trombone (it's much more open than tuba).

[tbdana]

I've been struggling with this myself lately (age = 77). I'm not sure whether I've lost a step in terms of sustained notes in the low range, or it's just much more difficult to do that on bass trombone than on tuba. Very likely, both of these are in play (no pun intended -- well, not much of one).

You're doing great, by my standards. I'm not yet quite 70, and I'm losing lung volume and having to work hard to employ workarounds. Yesterday, playing Les Miz, I got to a forte 9.5-beat pedal G with a crescendo (what writing!), and had to sneak a breath every few beats. There was no way. All I could do was take two tablets of extra-strength Fuckitol. LOL!

And FWIW, I can circular breathe on tenor, but not at all on bass trombone. I don't know if it's me or just the nature of the beast.

[ghmerrill]

Nature of the beast, I think. It's SO open that I just can't manage to get any intake before I run out of output.

[chouston3]

Check out the Remington Warmup Book. There is a section that works on what you describe. I believe you play my country tis of thee in larger and larger chunks to work on efficiency.

[Kuwagatton]

Thank you for the advice! I'll be sure to try it out next time I practice.

[JimR]

ghmerrill » Sun Oct 20, 2024 10:20 am
I've been struggling with this myself lately (age = 77). I'm not sure whether I've lost a step in terms of sustained notes in the low range, or it's just much more difficult to do that on bass trombone than on tuba. Very likely, both of these are in play (no pun intended -- well, not much of one).

I am 71. Also play tuba and bass trombone. Can hold notes longer on the Tuba ( a full size BB-flat). Much more resistance on tuba allows me to use much less air on long tones vs bass trombone.
Cheers