What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

ttf_BMadsen
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_BMadsen »

Quote from: RJMason on Jul 02, 2017, 06:36PMI'm 27 and a professional trombonist.  I haven't had a day job for almost five years and I live in NYC. I'd say most guys in the low end without a day job in NYC make 30-35K hustling really hard...more experienced guys can play in wedding bands corporate things, gets to about $45-50K. At that point if you win an orchestral gig you'll start out between 50-60K trial year then it goes up. In NYC, that is much higher and if you get a Broadway show and Don't often sub out can make upwards of $150K. These numbers would probably be similar or lower depending on which city or state...maybe where your cost of living is also lower. Otherwise freelance touring with cool bands can get your money way higher. Don't expect to play any music you were taught in college to make a living. I also advise getting into electronic music-- I get flown out to play Coachella with a DJ and make more than tens times the Mingus band gig pay.

Hey RJ! Glad to see you chime in here!

I'll expand on what RJ says here. If you are one of the lucky few to eventually get a Broadway show, from what I've seen of the union contracts, it pays around $100k for a single horn gig (only tenor or bass), if you don't sub out much. But, reality is, you need to sub out enough to keep your subs working (who then return the favor when you don't have a show), and keep other contacts calling you, so that when your show closes, you have work. And, Broadway is fickle - there are long time Broadway players who are suddenly without shows, and new players breaking in. And subbing is very hard to get into - not impossible, but everybody and their mom wants to break in because it's the best non-auditioned regular gig in town.

Most Broadway shows, however, are not one horn gigs anymore - they usually involve doubles. Tenor/bass, tenor/tuba, and bass/tuba are most common, but euphonium shows up often enough as well. So, pay goes up (I think it's 30% bump for a double, and less for another double), and can approach $150k with enough doubles. But, you have to be skilled at your doubles - good enough that people will think of you as a player on that instrument, rather than someone who just doubles.

RJ is right in that if you can break in with the right touring groups, you can make a lot more on the road. But, that comes with sacrifices as well. If you picture yourself settling down with a wife and kids, touring is not really an option. And, if you don't stick around to build a network, when you are ready for that, it can be harder to have gigs on the calendar. I know a few guys who left the road and took day jobs because they couldn't get enough gigs once they decided to stop touring.

I will also echo RJ in saying if you want to play for a living, expand into electronic music. I've opened so many doors by expanding into keys that I'm probably going to increase my income by at least 50% in the next year to 2 years.

Couple of things to expect. You will work far harder for less money as a musician than you would at a day job, if you are going to make at least $40k a year. You will work the opposite schedule of 90% of people you'll meet, making it hard to maintain friendships outside of music. Any significant others are going to have trouble understanding what you do and how hard it is to take off time (since most people can take a day here or there and still get paid, where if you block a day off you are guaranteeing no chance of making money, which is a hard thing to do when you aren't making much). And, however much you love what you do, it is exhausting - period.

But, if you are dedicated, hard working, a self starter (there is absolutely no one that will push you to keep growing, learning, and expanding your skill set once you join the scene), and a bit of a risk taker (since there is a big risk in going freelance), you can make it happen. But it's not easy. I taught full time for 5 years - I'd say it's as hard to be a full-time teacher in Brooklyn (and not the nice parks), as it is to be a freelancer, and it pays better. But, I like this work more - I was a miserable teacher. If I'm going to work this hard, I'd rather play.  Image
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: Ellrod on Jul 02, 2017, 12:18PMThe recent Vancouver SO  principal and bass trb positions paid about $55k to $65k per season. Convert to USD by multiplying by .75. Second trb should be coming up soon.

It would be tough to make that the only revenue stream and live a middle lifestyle in Vancouver. In Seattle, you would be living just above the poverty line.
ttf_W/SBTRB
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_W/SBTRB »

if you want to play professionally get married and hopefully to a nurse. Make sure that person knows what playing in a regional orchestra means to your family life.   Also practice like crazy and study with the people who play in the major orchestras and expect to do many auditions and not be sad when you aren't selected. Notice I didn't say anything about auditioning for major orchestras. Or you could be a teacher. I love teaching.
ttf_wgwbassbone
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_wgwbassbone »

Quote from: BMadsen on Jul 06, 2017, 02:48PMHey RJ! Glad to see you chime in here!

I'll expand on what RJ says here. If you are one of the lucky few to eventually get a Broadway show, from what I've seen of the union contracts, it pays around $100k for a single horn gig (only tenor or bass), if you don't sub out much. But, reality is, you need to sub out enough to keep your subs working (who then return the favor when you don't have a show), and keep other contacts calling you, so that when your show closes, you have work. And, Broadway is fickle - there are long time Broadway players who are suddenly without shows, and new players breaking in. And subbing is very hard to get into - not impossible, but everybody and their mom wants to break in because it's the best non-auditioned regular gig in town.

Most Broadway shows, however, are not one horn gigs anymore - they usually involve doubles. Tenor/bass, tenor/tuba, and bass/tuba are most common, but euphonium shows up often enough as well. So, pay goes up (I think it's 30% bump for a double, and less for another double), and can approach $150k with enough doubles. But, you have to be skilled at your doubles - good enough that people will think of you as a player on that instrument, rather than someone who just doubles.

RJ is right in that if you can break in with the right touring groups, you can make a lot more on the road. But, that comes with sacrifices as well. If you picture yourself settling down with a wife and kids, touring is not really an option. And, if you don't stick around to build a network, when you are ready for that, it can be harder to have gigs on the calendar. I know a few guys who left the road and took day jobs because they couldn't get enough gigs once they decided to stop touring.

I will also echo RJ in saying if you want to play for a living, expand into electronic music. I've opened so many doors by expanding into keys that I'm probably going to increase my income by at least 50% in the next year to 2 years.

Couple of things to expect. You will work far harder for less money as a musician than you would at a day job, if you are going to make at least $40k a year. You will work the opposite schedule of 90% of people you'll meet, making it hard to maintain friendships outside of music. Any significant others are going to have trouble understanding what you do and how hard it is to take off time (since most people can take a day here or there and still get paid, where if you block a day off you are guaranteeing no chance of making money, which is a hard thing to do when you aren't making much). And, however much you love what you do, it is exhausting - period.

But, if you are dedicated, hard working, a self starter (there is absolutely no one that will push you to keep growing, learning, and expanding your skill set once you join the scene), and a bit of a risk taker (since there is a big risk in going freelance), you can make it happen. But it's not easy. I taught full time for 5 years - I'd say it's as hard to be a full-time teacher in Brooklyn (and not the nice parks), as it is to be a freelancer, and it pays better. But, I like this work more - I was a miserable teacher. If I'm going to work this hard, I'd rather play.  Image

I'll comment on the part that I know about directly-Broadway. I've been working steadily on Broadway for 15 years, all at the same show. Brian is right about several things here: Salary for a single instrument chair, newer shows requiring doubling now on most chairs, although I don't think that the first double pays 30% over scale but I can check. Last year our librarian retired from the show and I was named librarian which pays a full double. Subbing out: I'm involved in enough other projects that I do sub out on a regular basis. I don't sub out to keep my subs busy, I sub out when I need to and they are able to work for me when needed. I could not do my job without my subs and I treat them with respect and admiration. Other regular chair holders do not-their issue. I also sub out to keep my sanity. Doesn't matter what you are doing playing the same thing thousands of times can do some damage to one's mental stability. You gotta know when to take off!!! Priceless.
But back to salary. How far does 100K go in New York? Well if I had to move their and buy a place today it would be laughable. I know other locations in the US are worse: Seattle, SanFrancisco to name a couple. And even though I've been Incredibly Lucky to have a show run for this long most don't run 6-12 months. Job security is the bigger issue. Is there enough work to sustain the salary from year to year? Usually that answer is no.
ttf_BMadsen
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_BMadsen »

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Jul 10, 2017, 11:52AMBut back to salary. How far does 100K go in New York? Well if I had to move their and buy a place today it would be laughable. I know other locations in the US are worse: Seattle, SanFrancisco to name a couple. And even though I've been Incredibly Lucky to have a show run for this long most don't run 6-12 months. Job security is the bigger issue. Is there enough work to sustain the salary from year to year? Usually that answer is no.

In a way, getting busy with a lot of different projects can mean a more consistent "salary" than having a show - because you aren't overly dependent on one source of income, if gigs dry up in one area, or slow down, it doesn't end up being a huge part of your income, so your income remains steadier. But, it's much harder to get to that $100k mark.

As for how far does $100k go in NYC? Well, it all depends on your expectations. I live in NJ now, but when I lived in Brooklyn, I had a variety of living situations before moving in with my girlfriend (now wife) who owned her apartment. All would have been workable at the $40k a year mark (although some would be easier than others). And I have plenty of friends making it work - it's all about being flexible about your expectations, so you can find what you need and can afford.

Again, it's not easy - but, if you really, really, really want it, and are willing to work INCREDIBLY hard for it, you can make it work.
ttf_wgwbassbone
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_wgwbassbone »

Quote from: BMadsen on Jul 13, 2017, 12:48PMIn a way, getting busy with a lot of different projects can mean a more consistent "salary" than having a show - because you aren't overly dependent on one source of income, if gigs dry up in one area, or slow down, it doesn't end up being a huge part of your income, so your income remains steadier. But, it's much harder to get to that $100k mark.

As for how far does $100k go in NYC? Well, it all depends on your expectations. I live in NJ now, but when I lived in Brooklyn, I had a variety of living situations before moving in with my girlfriend (now wife) who owned her apartment. All would have been workable at the $40k a year mark (although some would be easier than others). And I have plenty of friends making it work - it's all about being flexible about your expectations, so you can find what you need and can afford.

Again, it's not easy - but, if you really, really, really want it, and are willing to work INCREDIBLY hard for it, you can make it work.

Totally agree with all of this. I don't need to live in luxury but for the last 20+ years I've owned and lived in a house with a yard. Deals can be found but I've also rebuilt 2 houses. I don't want to do another one-yet.
ttf_blast
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: wgwbassbone on Yesterday at 10:14 AMTotally agree with all of this. I don't need to live in luxury but for the last 20+ years I've owned and lived in a house with a yard. Deals can be found but I've also rebuilt 2 houses. I don't want to do another one-yet.

It's a very nice house Bill  Image Image Image Image

You don't play the trombone to get rich, you play it to get happy.... though THAT doesn't always work out. If the OP has to ask the question it may not be the right job for them.
I have had a full time playing income for 28 years and the last 5 years on 30 weeks. Covered the bills, have a place called home, some wheels, a wife and two great grown up kids. A 15 minute audition and two weeks on trial worked out for me.... but... there are only just over 20 full time bass trombone jobs in the UK and some of those pay per session.... most people will never get a full time gig.... you do not do it for the money.

Chris Stearn
ttf_Paul Martin
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_Paul Martin »

Quote from: trb420 on Jun 30, 2017, 08:36PMI would like to get a degree in trombone performance, but the only thing holding me back is the fact that I could potentially make a lot more money with a more conventional job.
I think the more likely answer is that you would almost certainly make more money with a conventional job that requires any kind of post-secondary training.
ttf_watermailonman
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_watermailonman »

Quote from: blast on Jul 19, 2017, 11:05AMIt's a very nice house Bill  Image Image Image Image

You don't play the trombone to get rich, you play it to get happy.... though THAT doesn't always work out. If the OP has to ask the question it may not be the right job for them.
I have had a full time playing income for 28 years and the last 5 years on 30 weeks. Covered the bills, have a place called home, some wheels, a wife and two great grown up kids. A 15 minute audition and two weeks on trial worked out for me.... but... there are only just over 20 full time bass trombone jobs in the UK and some of those pay per session.... most people will never get a full time gig.... you do not do it for the money.

Chris Stearn

This is the goal for most of us who have studied music professionally, or was the goal until we gave it up to do something else. I have never regret that change in career. Now I have a full time job with nice colleges, 35 days of paid vacation each year and flexible working hours to be able to take gigs or play in rehearsal bands.

The ones I know who makes a living just playing trombone are few. It's the ones in the orchestras here in Stockholm.  It might be as much as 20 full time trombone players in Stockholm.  The rest is part time musicians. Most working in public music schools as music teachers or in music college.

Freelance salaries vary. I guess there are a few who get the best jobs in television and studios. I'm thinking of 2-3 tenor players in Stockholm who are first call and have the great jobs. They don't accept a gig for less than $300 and gets paid to rehearse. Then there are people like me who play dances, shows and church gigs for a lot less. It can vary between $65-$300 per occasion and usually no extra for rehearsals if included. The sum depends on the type of gig and how many rehearsals to include. The last two weekends were good ones and I had 3-4 gigs friday-sunday. Added on top of my regular salary it gives a good life, but if the income from music was all I had it would be a life in misery.

/Tom


ttf_davdud101
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_davdud101 »

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Jul 05, 2017, 06:31AMI don't care the age, gender, orientation, etc of a player - as long as they sound good. And it doesn't follow to me that older people should only play older music while younger people get to play younger music. The arts - of all things - shouldn't work that way. A competent player should be paid whatever the market will bear - regardless of age, sex, etc.

...Geezer

This brings up an interesting debate, though, Geez. People who enjoy certain genres are biased on appearances/conventions/expectations for performers. It's always been that way and I wonder if it'll ever change...
ttf_davdud101
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What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist?

Post by ttf_davdud101 »

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Jul 05, 2017, 06:31AMI don't care the age, gender, orientation, etc of a player - as long as they sound good. And it doesn't follow to me that older people should only play older music while younger people get to play younger music. The arts - of all things - shouldn't work that way. A competent player should be paid whatever the market will bear - regardless of age, sex, etc.

...Geezer

This brings up an interesting debate, though, Geez. People who enjoy certain genres are biased on appearances/conventions/expectations for performers. It's always been that way and I wonder if it'll ever change...
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