Is Ford vs Chevy like Conn vs Yamaha

[BrassSection]

This is sorta like Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge, vs Imports, etc, where everybody has a favorite vehicle type question. My experience with vehicles is that with every one of them you can get a good one or a bad one, but there are some models to avoid altogether…anybody else remember the Vega or the Yugo??

My question is are horns like autos, even from the same manufacturer you can get a good horn or a bad one? Are there horns to just totally avoid as a general,rule? Had a Bach straight tenor on loan in the 90s while my horn was in the shop. (Couldn’t tell you the Bach model) I couldn’t wait to get my King back! Sound wise and slide wise it wasn’t pleasant to play…maybe that’s why it was a loaner while waiting to be massaged. Side note, shop owner was a trumpet player. And speaking of trumpet players, pro that joins us occasionally is a Bach only trumpets, from pic to,flugal. He tried my Holton and liked it, said it feels like a Bach to him.

Not really looking to add or replace any of my horns, just curious of the experiences of others.

[NotSkilledHere]

yes if anything horns are more prone to good/bad examples than cars. almost all cars of the same make and model will drive 99% the same, at least fresh from factory. Bach is kind of notorious for having wildly inconsistent swings between excellent and absolutely detestable horns. In modern times, I would say that horns have gotten more consistent, but still far more prone to good/bad examples than cars.

Yamaha might be the manufacturer with the singular most consistent fit, finish, and feel across examples of the same particular model, with some exceptions of course (I'm looking at you Xeno 830). Like I have played a number of 882O's and 9/10 of them are pretty much within rounding error of one another. Whereas even with say modern Bach 42AF's for example, out of 10, only say 3 or 4 could be said to be similar enough to be called the same horn where the other 7 or 6 would play differently enough that you'd think it was made in a different time period or something. not necessarily badly, just differently. just an example. not ragging on bach or 42's in particular. I own a 42 in addition to a yamaha.

I don't know about horns that are complete writeoffs as a whole lineup, but horns that I think MANY people tend to tell you to avoid are like the Yamaha 830, but you do see magic examples. A forum member here has one and he sounds fantastic on it and finds it to be a wonderful example for him. horns in particular are also VERY prone to "what works for you might not work for me. and what works for me might not work for you." It's a very subjective and varied personal experience for everyone. definitely more of a play the specific horn you are looking to buy because even if most of the make/model is a writeoff, you might find a magic example that fits perfectly with you.

[hyperbolica]

Its a little more complex than just x v y. When I talk about Conns, its almost always pre-1972 Conns. The Yamahas I've liked have been mostly newer horns. But yeah, its personal preference. I've been playing Conns since 1974. I do own 1 King, 1 Getzen, 2 olds, 1 Kanstul, 1 Wessex. And 7 Conns. I've owned at least 5 Yamahas in the past, but none currently. So I'm not a complete bigot. I do spread it around a little. There's nothing wrong with having a favorite or two.

[Mamaposaune]

I often use this analogy with non-musician parents when asking about an upgrade for their child/my student.
There are many brands, some better than others and many brands having their die-hard followers. Within any brand, there are a variety of models of different sizes and prices, each having their target player/driver. If you are looking for a family sedan, you have a Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, VW Passat, etc. For a large bore trombone, you have a Bach 42B, Conn 88H, Getzen 3047, etc. Is one "better" than another? Probably not, but if you try several and compare, chances are you will have a preference for the one that is right for you.
Picking what type you want is important - do you want a work van or a sports car? Do you want an orchestral tenor or a lead jazz horn? There are parallels, and within any given reputable make, you will find a wide range of models. Using a King 2B on a Mahler symphony is going to be as impractical as carrying your work tools in a Corvette.

[BrassSection]

Just a note: I wasn’t singling out the Conn and Yamaha brands for anything, just the first 2 that popped into my head. I’ve had good luck with Conn, played a variety of Conn baritones thru school, junior year moved up to brand spanking new. Newer ones weren’t beat up like the old ones, but never had a bad one. Bought the new cornet my son used one year before a school baritone was available. Horn probably pushing 40, I used it awhile, grandson used all thru school, and I borrow it on occasion to mellow out instead of using ,my trumpet. My 1930s Conn tuba still very usable, and heavy! Only had experience with one Yamaha trumpet; like the Bach trombone experience I wasn’t impressed.

One thing I always wondered about…senior high band director owned the music store that the school bought all its instruments from. Never heard anything nefarious, but it still looked like a potential conflict of interest. I always tried to avoid that when I had a business. Almost had one as a home inspector. Got a call to inspect address 123 XYZ. The day before the inspection we found out it was my nephew’s house. Knew how to get to his house, just didn’t know the address of the house. Called the potential buyers and explained the situation, told them if they want to get another inspector, please feel free! They replied that if I was honest enough to call, they trusted me. Many issues in the home from a bad roof to bad electrical system. They walked from that place, nephew was ok, he knew all that before I showed up. He spent the next several years doing upgrades for the next For Sale sign.

[JohnL]

One thing I always wondered about…senior high band director owned the music store that the school bought all its instruments from. Never heard anything nefarious, but it still looked like a potential conflict of interest.

A lot would depend on how the procurement process was handled. If there was a competitive bid process in which the band director had no involvement, there'd be less chance of conflict of interest. Of course, the band director would still be the one deciding what was being purchased and when, and could potentially use that information to their benefit.

[Jimprindle]

Just deal with the honest person in the store. I once had “used car salesman” trying to tell me that he his king student models were better than any Bach ever invented.

Don’t deal with the salesman. Talk to the people in charge and the people who know quality.

[Trav1s]

I think this is more appropriate: GM v/s Toyota is like the Conn v/s Yamaha