Thoughts on Yamaha bones?

[marccromme]

Owned and still own Yamaha trombones, and like them much

YSL-7?? alto trombone, can't remember the correct model number. way before the the YSL-871 alto. Lighter in response than the 871, quite fine, but alto was not for me. To small .. Very nice beginner horn for my son at age 8 with too short arm for a tenor trombone, Sold it after he progressed to a 448G. Sold to a pro player who still plays and loves it 10 years after. And uses it to teach kids on alto trombone, too ...

YSL-350 C trombone with ascendending valve - plays very well, but is a bit odd with the 6-position short slide. To weired to have valve positions above usual straight positions, so I bought instead of a 448G for my son.

YSL-356G - very nice small-to-medium tenor with valve and double-size slide. Good response, easy to play, great for chamber music or 2. chair in big band, or in brass quintett, can strip painting of the walls with it, or can play very soft in a chamber ensemble, used it to double tenor voices in a church choir with great effect. Love it much. - its a keeper

YSL-446G medium bore with valve. bought used as a beater horn, restored, and played very fine. Very easy to play, splendid high register. Liked it much for 1. chair on synfonic context, or 2. chair in big band. But I already had my 356, and love the slightly brighter sound of the 356, owned a 682G also, for the darker spectrum, so I sold it again. made some profit on the restoration, and the new owner is very happy about it. Great horn! A lot of bang for the buck if bought used. A pro horn too, despite of being sold as intermediate.

YSL-448G nice large bore, bought for my son at age of 12, bought used for cheap. Plays very well, more to the brighter side in tonal color than the other large bore Yamahas, a lot of zing. Good and solid horn, pro quality even if sold as intermediate. Love it much. Sold, when my son stopped playing trombone at age of 17, because I also owned a

YSL-548G allegro (semi open wrap), same as above, even a tad better in all respects. Never tried the open wrap version, but the semi-open wrap is as good as any rotor can get. Lots of charme and perfect intonation (as all Yamaha trombones I owned). Pro horn, even if sold as step-up horn. Sold, as I owned 5 yamaha tenors at that time, and one Conn 88H, and needed the cash for a tuba. And it was almost the same instrument as the

YSL-682G - same as above, but with a slightly better hand hammered bell. Has a tad better projection than the 548, and more zing than the 448, and a slighly darker tonal color than the 548 allegro, plays very even and easy on both high and low register. Also sold, as I needed the cash for a tuba, have a Conn 88H which fills the same role, and I still own another one:

YSL-682B model Bousfield - with the large, very open valve, darker in tonal color than the 682G , and a bit heavier bell. Plays so well, it's a keeper, because it makes a fine synfonic tenor, also good for 3. chair big band, and has more contrast to the 356 I kept. Its definitely a keeper (but would be almost equally happy with the 862B and the 548G allegro)

YSL-882G Xeno open wrap. Not my cup of tea, it is much Bach like, and darker playing than the models starting with 3,4,5, and 6, and somehow I like the 682B Bousfield more. I did test it multiple times, but never decided to buy one, as I think the 682B just is slightly better in all respects, and I did already own it.

YBL-321 single valve bass trombone with E-pull. Slide is not perfect, as it had been injured by a former owner, but boy, how good does this bass bone plays. Juicy, mellow with a good punch. The 321 just sings. It's a keeper, even if the usage for single-valve bass trombones is limited. It's in my opinion the best of the yamaha bass bones I had a chance to play and try, including the

YBL-421 (the modern version of the 321), lacking he E-pull, and somehow just a bit more heavy and dull than the 321 bass bone. Tried it twice, never bought it, kept my 321.

YBL-613H , very good too, independent open wrap, 10" bell but brighter in tonal color than the most Bach 50s I had a chance to try. plays darker than the 321, and is a fine commercial horn. Prefer somehow the 321, though if it was not for the need of a second valve.. Would be happy to play the 613H but didn't by it, as I had/have a Conn 112H with Hagmanns, which just is a tad better in any respect than the 613H I tried. So i kept my Conn 112H

YBL-830 independent open wrap, 9,5 " bell. Xen model. The most Bach'y of those I ever have tried, very consistent, play nice, but maybe a bit unpersonal. My Elkhard Holton Thayer with Bach 50 slide (definitely a keeper) plays with a bit more tonal colors, nice dark if played soft, great volumen for Brass band and Wind band - and synfonic - if I step on the air accelerator. and very easy too, so I do think the old Holton/Thayer/Bach hybrid does a slightly better job for very little money than an almost new and more expensive Xeno. So I never bought the Xeno bass.

What I would like to try:

YBL-613 (no letter) with the old fashioned conn-like independent wrap. Heared good about it, but never got my hands on one.

YBL-506 german-style independent bass bone with Krans - tried several times to get near one, but never managed to try one. Would really like to compare it to my 2023 Kruspe independant bass bone with Meinl-Schmidt valves and 3 leadpipes ( = definitely a keeper too. What a lovely instrument for chamber music !)

So my experiences with Yamaha trombones are good to very good, and 3 of them YSL-356G, YSL-682B, YBL-321 are definitely keepers for decades.

And the others are so well made, play well without any fuss, and have very fine intonation, I would play them happily if I just did not have a cheap vintage horn doing the job a tad better.

[marccromme]

And by the way, the

YEB-321 is a very good 4-valve (uncompensated) Eb tuba, I just miss the 5th valve to make it more useful, better in response and tonal color than the 3+1 compensated YEB 631 large-pancake Eb tuba in my opinion. I own the YEB-321 as a marching tuba and extra practice tuba in my summer house. My main driver is a MW 5 valve front action Eb tuba.

YEP-842 custom Euph with gold trim is very good to, I own one with additional after-market trigger I got used for a very fair price, its really nice and sings. Good intonation, great high and low register, plays very well with a small Yamaha 58 or 59 bass bone mouthpiece. Better than the YEP-621 I tried and did not buy.

[Finetales]

Owned and still own Yamaha trombones, and like them much

YSL-7?? alto trombone, can't remember the correct model number. way before the the YSL-871 alto.

Probably a YSL-671 or 673.

[LetItSlide]

I get the 'sterile sound' and 'no depth' comments. I feel that way about my Yamahas so in my mind they are not unfair comments. They are how they are. They are mechanically very good, though.

I'd sell my Yamahas before my Bachs, that's for sure.

[lmalewic]

I’m a Yamaha artist so you might think I’m biased but I play them for a reason and will always be honest about them. Like any horn Yamaha has their strengths and weaknesses. I’ve played lots of horns over the years from different makers and have had the least amount of issues with the Yamaha horns I’ve owned. Well put together, perfect slides. The 897ZD with a 500 bore slide I have is my favorite sounding horn. Great core of sound and can scream if you push it. The 891ZD is a bit more open and spread sounding. You can still use it for lead but it’s not as comfortable in that setting for me. The 835D is a great bass trombone, quick response, strong core of sound and quick valves. I personally don’t have any “boring sound” issues with any of the Yamaha horns I have. You can check out any of my videos and I’m sure you’ll come to the same conclusion. I’ve also never had anyone comment in a live setting “that horn sounds boring”. You get what you put into it. Now my main issue with the Yamaha horns has always been the lead pipes. The old 830 bass swallowed almost any mouthpiece you put into it which made it harder to find a match that would make the horn sing. The new 835D solves that issue. All the removable Yamaha small bore lead pipes have given me issues for the same reason. Mouthpieces go in too far. We have solved the issue with O’Malley Brass who now offer drop in replacements for the 891Z. You can get screw in NYC or LA lead pipes where the mouthpiece goes in a more standard amount and it fixes all the issues (at least for me) that were caused by the other lead pipes. They can also make lead pipes for the 897Z and the 897Z 500 which I have. We are also working on a new leadpipe for the 891 that I will hopefully have and be able to offer in the next few months.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm a big fan of Yamaha horns. For terns, I think that their feedback to the player is different than Shires, Edwards et al, but the sound to the listener is as good or at least about the same as those manufacturers at a much more reasonable price.

I get why people say they don't feel like they have character, but again, to me, this is a feedback issue, and also a "do you actually play with character" issue rather than a horn issue.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. For a time I considered going ALL Yamaha, because I like their design philosophy, and I think I also just "get" how the horns work. I don't like a horn I have to fight, but I also don't like a horn that goes out of control too easily. Feedback is always a thing when playing trombone, as like many instruments, we unfortunately have only a concept of how the actual sound is that comes out of the bell. Unless we are being mic'd and have headphones on, there's no way we can know what the sound is.

I guess I like the feedback that Yamaha horns give. I've tried out a lot of basses over the years, and definitely noticed how different they feel. But I always came back to my Yamahas. I've owned the YBL-612RII for many years, played a YBL-613H S for a year, and have played the 830 and 822G for several years now. I enjoy playing them, and don't feel that my sound is "sterile". They allow me to shape the notes how I like to shape them, and don't break up excessively at higher volumes.

[LetItSlide]

I made the case for the player's role in putting character into the sound and style when I was in a trombone choir, playing a Yamaha. Someone had made a comment about Yamahas having no personality, or something to that effect.

[hyperbolica]

I made the case for the player's role in putting character into the sound and style when I was in a trombone choir, playing a Yamaha. Someone had made a comment about Yamahas having no personality, or something to that effect.

I admit that this "personality" thing is personal. But it's real. If you play say a Yamaha ysl 651 and then immediately pick up and play a nice 1955 Conn 6h, you'll see a difference in how they feel. Does the audience hear this difference? Probably not. But when the audience starts buying my horns, I'll start worrying about that.

There's room for multiple opinions on this and other topics. There's room for multiple sounds coming from trombone players. Yes, the player puts personality into it too, but hardware does make a difference, if only primarily in the feel.

[Burgerbob]

I want to have horns that I want to play. Few modern yamahas make me want to pick them up and practice.

[atopper333]

I admit that this "personality" thing is personal. But it's real. If you play say a Yamaha ysl 651 and then immediately pick up and play a nice 1955 Conn 6h, you'll see a difference in how they feel. Does the audience hear this difference? Probably not. But when the audience starts buying my horns, I'll start worrying about that.

There's room for multiple opinions on this and other topics. There's room for multiple sounds coming from trombone players. Yes, the player puts personality into it too, but hardware does make a difference, if only primarily in the feel.

I definitely agree with this, about differing opinions and everything else stated. That’s exactly why I went with my King 4bf over a Shires.

But I think this hits another point of player feedback. If we are receiving the feedback we are looking for, our confidence increases both in our playing and with the equipment. Like most things the feedback an individual player is looking for is quite personal, and confidence is important. Our reaction to the feedback is every bit as personal as our ‘personality’ in regards to sound. Some people click with Yamaha, some with other manufacturers. It isn't wrong or right, it just may not be an individual players cup of tea.

[sirisobhakya]

Another thing that I notice, at least with bass trombones, is that as a southeast Asian with smaller hands, Yamaha is MUCH easier and more comfortable to hold, comparing to European and American brands including, but not limited to, Bach, Shires, K&H, B&S. This opinion is echoed by many I have asked.

Granted, lever positions can be adjusted, a holding aid can be installed, but there is something about the crossbrace diameter and the distance between receiver crossbrace and slide crossbrace that is larger. The two mentioned dimension of Bach A47BOF TENOR is even larger than that of the 830. It seems like Yamaha use Asian’s hands as a reference, which is of course smaller than European’s and American’s.

This maybe is a minor issue for some comparing to the sound and playability, but at least for me it makes the horn more pleasurable to play.

[RJMason]

I just tried out a wonderful vintage 3BF today, really fantastic horn. But honestly thought my 891ZD sounded more interesting, projected better, had a much better slide, and kept a really pleasing core that the late 60s horn lacked. I would’ve much preferred to hear the yamaha on certain types of sessions than the 3B tbh. Also tried a Conn 48H, fantastic horn! But my 891ZD plays similarly mellow, yet just as crispy as that horn can get. Only took a tad more effort on my end. The Conn is a vibe though, definitely felt more fun to just play and flow on.

[tbonesullivan]

Another thing that I notice, at least with bass trombones, is that as a southeast Asian with smaller hands, Yamaha is MUCH easier and more comfortable to hold, comparing to European and American brands including, but not limited to, Bach, Shires, K&H, B&S. This opinion is echoed by many I have asked.

Granted, lever positions can be adjusted, a holding aid can be installed, but there is something about the crossbrace diameter and the distance between receiver crossbrace and slide crossbrace that is larger. The two mentioned dimension of Bach A47BOF TENOR is even larger than that of the 830. It seems like Yamaha use Asian’s hands as a reference, which is of course smaller than European’s and American’s.

This maybe is a minor issue for some comparing to the sound and playability, but at least for me it makes the horn more pleasurable to play.

I use the "Yeo Grip" when playing, and I love how the Yamaha horns all work perfectly with that grip. It really takes the weight / stress off my middle finger and allows me to get a better grip on the horn. I really like the ergonomics of all three of my Yamaha basses, and I think honestly don't like playing other brands due to this.

What is interesting is that the smaller cross brace on the outer slide is a "feature", mentioned in the Yamaha descriptions, or at least it used to be. However then I see reviews complaining about the thinner cross brace, and there are even horns like the Getzen 4147IB that have the HUGE outer slide cross brace, which is even wider than the regular brace. I guess some people just like different things.

[LetItSlide]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for all of your feedback. I went into the city to try one the other day and in my personal opinion I loved the horn heaps, I also tried a conn 52h. I loved the 52h however for me I felt I got a warmer sound on the Yammie compared to the 52h based on how I play, the Yammie was also quite a bit less. I ended up leaving with the Yammie, I absolutely love my new yamaha ysl-640.

The YSL-640 is a great horn. If you want one horn to play just about anything on, it's one of the best choices out there. It's a big medium horn, or a medium big horn. Enjoy it!

I’m sure the 640 is really good. I own its predecessor, a YSL-684G. I’ve been playing it more recently, as well as an 891z. Both are mechanically wonderful. I wonder if my bias toward Bach horns is rational.

[tbonesullivan]

I’m sure the 640 is really good. I own its predecessor, a YSL-684G. I’ve been playing it more recently, as well as an 891z. Both are mechanically wonderful. I wonder if my bias toward Bach horns is rational.

I love my yamaha bass trombones, but when it comes to tenors, nothing plays like a good Bach, be it a 36 or a 42.

[Finetales]

I recently got a 682G. Solid player, easy, even, nice sound with more personality than a lot of the Xenos. Absolutely nothing to complain about.

Another thing that I notice, at least with bass trombones, is that as a southeast Asian with smaller hands, Yamaha is MUCH easier and more comfortable to hold, comparing to European and American brands including, but not limited to, Bach, Shires, K&H, B&S. This opinion is echoed by many I have asked.

Yamaha instruments generally have excellent ergonomics, yes.

[timbone]

I want to say we have not talked about Yamaha concepts or the production aspect to create that consistency, and the raw materials. I would say the trombones have a bright sound, but so do the trumpets, tubas, and even the pianos. Years ago I tried to love an 891z ( 508.?) but it did not have the depth of my bach 16. I had every chance to buy it and like it but couldn’t pull the trigger. I saw jj with the very horn. I sat underneath him at a concert and he split my head with high f’s, something he did not do on record, and he was mic’d. When people talk about personality, they are talking about a sound that is easy to manipulate and a complete sound but as you push, the horns lose to ones that have more mass in the slide and/or bell. So therefore, the tradeoff of mass somewhere on the horn will dictate the personality of the horn. I still believe the slide and the leadpipe have a hugh influence on the “engine” of the sound. The bell is merely a “speaker” but has its influence as well. However, they are good horns and in this industry, who wants everything to sound the same?

[LetItSlide]

One big difference in the LT16M and the 891Z, which you feel immediately upon picking them up, is the difference in brace thickness. The Bach is much more comfortable to hold, at least for me.