Price range for Instr Innovations double-valve swap?

[TomInME]

Looking at replacing the shite rotors on my 50B, wondering what a rough price range is for a rebuild with Instrument Innovations or other comparably priced/quality rotors. This would be a fixed/soldered setup (no interchangeable bells) and could use some of the existing tubing - no need to preserve the old valve section.

Thoughts?

Edit: I'm open to any tips anyone has about the process - not solely interested in prices.

[Burgerbob]

Because the Olsen rotors are so much larger than the Bachs, the original wrap could probably be reused to a point, but every part of the geometry would have to change to some degree.

I actually have one of these, uh, kind of in progress (I have a bell section… rotors… a whole wrap… and done nothing with any of it for 2+ years). But note that I bought a whole wrap from II, I think it’s worth starting from scratch.

[TomInME]

Yeah, don't really need the E pull on the F attachment, that makes for a really long tuning slide and not much slack for bends. The II wrap is likely larger diameter than the Bach, which wouldn't hurt either.

What $ are you expecting for a tech to put it together for you? I'm making a rough guess of $2k total for materials and installation, but that's probably optimistic.

[tbonesullivan]

The original tubing can probably be reused, but most likely everything will need to be taken apart. Who knows how well it was assembled originally, and you want the new valve section to have minimal stress in it. The bracing may also be something you want revised, as the F attachment is braced to the bell itself.

As for the long tuning slides, I don't think the 50B has enough for an E pull, and it often seems like the long tuning slides are also used to give stability to the attachment.

[Blabberbucket]

With an open wrap 50 you should be able to reuse all of the original valve wrap parts, but they will require some adjustment. The Bach valves' knuckle into the receiver has a slight angle - the Olsen valves do not, which is a minor complication in the build.

While it is apart I would recommend replacing the neckpipe tube, and having the tech check the tuning slide alignment to make sure it is parallel. Rebuild the tubing slide if it is significantly out

I've done the conversion on several tenors and it is fairly straightforward work for a competent trombone tech. I'm not a huge fan of the II valves, but there are not really any other reasonable options available at that price point.

Pricing for the work really depends on the shop and you will need to talk directly to the tech to figure that out - shop labor rates and estimates can vary wildly. You will probably be able to save a little by purchasing the rotors yourself from Olsen and avoiding the "ordering/stocking/margin" upcharge.

What other parts of the process are you concerned about?

[TomInME]

While it is apart I would recommend replacing the neckpipe tube, and having the tech check the tuning slide alignment to make sure it is parallel. Rebuild the tuning slide if it is significantly out
You will probably be able to save a little by purchasing the rotors yourself from Olsen and avoiding the "ordering/stocking/margin" upcharge.

Thanks for the response - those are some good tips. I mainly was looking for a ballpark on pricing, but as you said, that is highly dependent on the shop.

Currently working up the courage to try the 3d-printed core replacements mentioned in another thread, which is a lot simpler but more experimental. But given the instrument in question, I'm not sure I can justify $2.5-3k for a full valve-section replacement.

[Matt K]

Bare minimum, assuming tech can re-use all of the tubing (not a great assumption as Aidan points out), is whatever eight solder points would be charged (this is a common method of charging in some shops). The local place would charge around $300 for that.

Some often under-estimated parts of this project: linkages and getting the tubing right. Aidan already pointed out the tubing work, so I won't belabor that. Fortunately, tubing isn't very expensive for the most part. Ferrules canbe, especially i you want nickel is pretty expensive these days. But linkages.... linkages are a real beast to get right. Especially steel ones. I think Olsen at least has a set of off-the-shelf linkages that will mostly work.

So if I were budgeting this and already had the horn and rotors in hand, I would probably expect anywhere from $600-2000 on top of that depending on specifics and the person doing the work. I had a dependent tenor fabricated about 10 years ago and the labor alone was $1500, but I also was retrofitting a closed wrap Bach valve section and so it had to be adjusted to have a dependent rotor added to it. Had I "merely" been trying to swap the rotors out I would guess it would be closer to the lower end of that.

[slidefunk]

When I had this done a few years ago to my Holton the rotors were $300 a piece just for the parts. The tech was able to use the original tubes. After labor it ended up being around $1050. It ended up needing more work down the road to fine-tune, some of the tubing hadn't been seated properly and a ferrule had cracked. I think it was worth the cost though, those rotors play great.