Quick bass build

[LIBrassCo]

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By some strange happening I ended up selling all my horns, only being left with a bell, tuning slide, and hand slide. Since I prefer to not go without having a working horn, I've quickly started to cobble a new valve section together. Won't be anything terribly fancy, but since I only needed to order $5-600 in parts, it will be cheap.

There's going to be a few new fun innovations on it, so kinda worth keeping the build in order somewhere.

Here's some photos that bring it up to date here. My hope is everything comes in within the next couple of weeks, and I can knock it out in two long days. I have all the new ferrule blanks cut, so just fitting left. I friction fit everything by hand, leaving a stop internally in the ferrules. Makes getting everything aligned properly way easier.

[Digidog]

A dependent, I take it?

This will be very interesting to follow! You have a nice creative way of solving and inventing that I regard as an evolution of the trombone. I hope some really great ideas will come from this project.

Best wishes for your project!

[LIBrassCo]

A dependent, I take it?

This will be very interesting to follow! You have a nice creative way of solving and inventing that I regard as an evolution of the trombone. I hope some really great ideas will come from this project.

Best wishes for your project!

Thank you! Yes, I'm personally a fan.

[whitbey]

Suggestion that fits well with an independent system. Make the tubing on the 2nd valve a little larger. That will balance the blow and make the horn feel very in balance.

I have a Bach bass from the 60's. The second valve was added just before I bought it in the 70's. It was set up as a dependent Bb/F/E. I had a new tuning slide made with larger tubing in C so now the horn is Bb/F/C. Low C with both valves is in first position and plays very open. Peddle BBb is in a long 3rd and plays easy too. Low B in two trigger long 2nd position is an easy hit. So in the key of C and the sharp keys the horn is easy to play as the positions are close to the same as with the F valve for C, B, Bb, and A.

The larger tubing on the second valve makes the horn very a balanced blow all the way down. Since I learned this way, it makes more sense than an independent horn because the sound works easy. And as I play a straight tenor or a single valve tenor, the simplicity of both valves on the bass being mostly 1st, 2nd or 3rd position, playing this horn is just like playing a trombone to me.

When I thought this up many years ago when the closest thing to the internet was a horn catalog or seeing a guy with 3 valves on a bass. Seems like it was Mike Suter and the valves were Bb/F/E/Eb and all 3 D. My logic was playing F or C is in 1st with a valve, so C is in first with 2 valves and when the slide goes out the bore is larger. And the Valve tubing is larger. So more tubing must be larger still.

Pics are in my profile.

[LIBrassCo]

Suggestion that fits well with an independent system. Make the tubing on the 2nd valve a little larger. That will balance the blow and make the horn feel very in balance.

I have a Bach bass from the 60's. The second valve was added just before I bought it in the 70's. It was set up as a dependent Bb/F/E. I had a new tuning slide made with larger tubing in C so now the horn is Bb/F/C. Low C with both valves is in first position and plays very open. Peddle BBb is in a long 3rd and plays easy too. Low B in two trigger long 2nd position is an easy hit. So in the key of C and the sharp keys the horn is easy to play as the positions are close to the same as with the F valve for C, B, Bb, and A.

The larger tubing on the second valve makes the horn very a balanced blow all the way down. Since I learned this way, it makes more sense than an independent horn because the sound works easy. And as I play a straight tenor or a single valve tenor, the simplicity of both valves on the bass being mostly 1st, 2nd or 3rd position, playing this horn is just like playing a trombone to me.

When I thought this up many years ago when the closest thing to the internet was a horn catalog or seeing a guy with 3 valves on a bass. Seems like it was Mike Suter and the valves were Bb/F/E/Eb and all 3 D. My logic was playing F or C is in 1st with a valve, so C is in first with 2 valves and when the slide goes out the bore is larger. And the Valve tubing is larger. So more tubing must be larger still.

Pics are in my profile.

Thanks for the suggestion, but there's quite a few reasons I like to keep it super uniform with dependent valves. I do, however like using progressive bore setups on independent valve sections.

[LIBrassCo]

PXL_20231231_152015877.PORTRAIT.jpg

Some Sunday progress. I pivoted slightly, using more of the parts it came with than I had planned.

[Amconk]

Very cool. Do you have a sketch of how your wrap is going to be planned out? I’d be interested to see your ideas!

[LIBrassCo]

Very cool. Do you have a sketch of how your wrap is going to be planned out? I’d be interested to see your ideas!

This is the general idea for the F wrap.

[LIBrassCo]

Correction, going this route.

[LIBrassCo]

Took way too much time to map out a straight line, but I have it where I'm happy with the routing. About as far as I can go til parts get here.

[Amconk]

Awesome! Looking forward to more pics. I've built a few frankenbones over the years, but I'd love to have access to the tools and parts to build something like this, with my own wrap design and built with my two fat little hands.

[LIBrassCo]

Awesome! Looking forward to more pics. I've built a few frankenbones over the years, but I'd love to have access to the tools and parts to build something like this, with my own wrap design and built with my two fat little hands.

Thanks! Admittedly this is me kinda screwing around, since I'll have very little money in the project, and it's just for me to use. That being said, I'll still build it to the level I build anything, because it's likely someone will end up buying it off of me at some point. There's a few new things I'm doing on it to see how they work that I'm real excited to try out.

[LIBrassCo]

Parts have arrived, slowly assembling in between mouthpieces.

[Blabberbucket]

Curious to see how you'll wind up bracing the D valve wrap.

[LIBrassCo]

Curious to see how you'll wind up bracing the D valve wrap.

I actually have some really slick bracing components currently in production at the printer. I'm bracing this horn a bit more than I normally do just because the wrap is sprawled out everywhere.

[LIBrassCo]

Just a bit of soldering and fitting on the F wrap today, so not much visual progress. Getting all the tubes to zero out to the correct angles was surprisingly easy, unlike previous days. Tomorrow I plan to knock out the Eb wrap, which will be a bit unique itself. Overall I'm quite satisfied with how it's turning out.

[atopper333]

Looking downright beautiful. Love the look of the wrap…

[LIBrassCo]

Looking downright beautiful. Love the look of the wrap…

Thank you, quite happy with it myself! I don't know how long I'll have this one, or if it'll just be my backup valve section, since I have a set of independent hagmanns coming to build. It's looking like a customer may get the Hagmanns instead l, in which case this will end up being my main horn for a little bit.

[LIBrassCo]

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Plumbing is done. Now I wait for printed parts.

[elmsandr]

Fascinating. Though, that S bend in the Eb loop…

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First thing that came to mind.

I do love playing against the standard planes and angles. Life is more fun with more variety there.

Cheers,
Andy

[LIBrassCo]

Fascinating. Though, that S bend in the Eb loop…

88F29A7B-43CF-4557-A5B2-1428A5948E38.jpeg

First thing that came to mind.

I do love playing against the standard planes and angles. Life is more fun with more variety there.

Cheers,
Andy

Lol! For some reason it looks questionable in photos, but in person it's just fine. This may end up being a placeholder for something else down the line anyhow.

[LeTromboniste]

Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?

[LIBrassCo]

Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?

Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.

[Kbiggs]

Trying to figure out the tuning slide. That S bend is part of the tuning slide crook?

I think it looks cool, but wondering what the rationale was for that choice vs just a straight normal U bend, is it just because of parts availability, or esthetic reason?

Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.

Ah, yes. The Spare Parts Shuffle.

[LIBrassCo]

Sure is. Needed adjustment to get everything to line up, and this was the only way that would work.

Ah, yes. The Spare Parts Shuffle.

More or less! Funny enough it didn't photograph well, but looks adequate in person. I don't want to take the time right now for a more aesthetically pleasing solution since it's just for me, but I left it so changing it out for a shepherd's crook will be very doable later on.

[Amconk]

I’d like to see a pic of it from the opposite side.

[LIBrassCo]

I’d like to see a pic of it from the opposite side.

I'll get those up today.

[LIBrassCo]

Progress

[atopper333]

Still looking awesome! What material are you using for the ferrules on the wrap?

[LIBrassCo]

Still looking awesome! What material are you using for the ferrules on the wrap?

Thanks! Bronze, same that I use on mouthpiece shanks.

[LIBrassCo]

As requested, back of the horn, and updated front. Waiting on stop arms so I can finish up

[Amconk]

Okay, okay, ya twisted my arm. I’ll take it. lol.

[harrisonreed]

What kind of bell is that? And soldered or unsoldered? Not gonna lie, I want that too.

[LIBrassCo]

Okay, okay, ya twisted my arm. I’ll take it. lol.

no joke, most horns I build for myself, this is what happens.

[LIBrassCo]

What kind of bell is that? And soldered or unsoldered? Not gonna lie, I want that too.

Olds S24G bell I picked up new old stock. I think you may have to fight a couple of other gents for it, lol.

[Amconk]

[LIBrassCo]

Ok ok, you win

[LIBrassCo]

Still waiting on stop arms, which is driving me a bit mad. They should be shipping any day, at which point I can promptly close this guy out. In the meantime, it's been a while since I messed with different bells, so I just ordered a Bach 50 9.5" gold bell to add into the system. Oddly enough I've never owned any variants of 50 bells, hoping it does something for me.

[LIBrassCo]

Linkage is all completed, just have to break it back down for finish work. I LOVE how it plays. Nice balance, valves have great action, sound is very even in and out of the valved notes. I had made plans to use this as my backup valve section, and to build a set of Hagmanns for my daily driver, but after spending enough time on it, Im going to stick with these for daily use.

I'll get some video of how it sounds up shortly. I have a new bell on order from Sandner, Bach 50 style mandrel, medium weight gold brass with a small nickel garland, and will be adding in a 62-78 slide as well, but even with my current components it sounds great.

[LIBrassCo]

Need to get some video done, but I've been playing this as my daily driver for a while now and couldn't be happier. As the horn has taken an unusual direction I thought to update it here. Through a very roundabout way, I ended up experimenting with the distribution of tubing in the bell section and slide. By adding a few inches to the tuning slide I was about to really adjust the sound in some interesting/beneficial ways, that required shortening the slide down by the corresponding amount. There's still a flat 6th position, but no 7th (which I don't use anyhow). It's good enough that I looked into having some proper tuning slide crooked made to this spec, and may do a small run of them for anyone who likes the idea.

[Digidog]

That looks really nice!

Amazing how small the wrap looks, and how compact it seems in between the neck and the flare, but that's maybe a trick of the eye.

Congrats to sweet horn!

[MichaelMedrick]

I will salute your choice of a brace-less main tuning slide. I am using those for both tenor and bass bones.
You do great work!!!

[LIBrassCo]

Little check in with this horn, sporting a new bell, integral counterweight, and a few other tweaks. I think this is the longest I've played the same set of valves for a while now, and I'm still quite happy with them. Just works well, and doesn't leave anything to be desired.

[Elow]

Hey Jeff, nice horn. How did you go about learning Fusion 360?

[LIBrassCo]

Hey Jeff, nice horn. How did you go about learning Fusion 360?

Thanks! I started with all the tutorials on their site for a month, then spend countless hours messing with the program. The hardest part is you'll know what it is you want it to do, but figuring out how to get there can take hours or seconds depending how familiar you get with it.

[atopper333]

As I said in January, and still think, that is one beautiful horn. Glad to hear it plays well too, most excellent craftsmanship, always an awesome thing to see great workmanship come together in something functional and beautiful at the same time. Well done!

[blast]

I did a similar wrap a few years ago.....

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