Help identifying vintage Conn

[Khengis]

Having trouble identifying this Conn trombone...

Serial 125xxx (1912?)
Silver Plate
6" bell with gold wash

Reads:
Victory 34
S
H P

Can't find anything like that posted online. Any idea what make/model I'm looking at? TIA.

[BGuttman]

Does it have a Union Label? (it's a shield with a bunch of letters inside.)

HP means it's High Pitch, meaning it is sorta like a Trombone in B natural. You can't play it in a modern ensemble.

I also suspect the engraving is "Victor" (no y).

A couple of pictures could help. Particularly of the braces and bell engraving.

[Khengis]

Yes, sorry about the pictures. Had to get them over to the laptop.

I think that must be a union badge. Although, pretty sure that's "Victory 34". Victor would be easier to understand...

Shield-SHP.jpg

ConnTrombone-Bell.jpg

[Khengis]

Here's a shot of the braces...

ConnTrombone-Braces4.jpg

[BGuttman]

This is definitely from the "Union Label" period. The label is for the Metal Polishers and Finishers Union. I wonder if this particular horn celebrated the recognition of the Union for representation. Victory is not the model.

I believe the S is small bore.

You may find some more information on Margaret Downey Banks' History of the Conn Corporation located on the America's Shrine to Music Site (you'll have to search for the location -- I can't vouch for the exact name).

While this may not be a great player, it's definitely an interesting instrument.

[jacobgarchik]

pre-model numbers
S = small
HP = high pitch
so
equivalent of the later model 3h

[YunoWho]

Sorry to revive this chat! But my Conn 5h from 1916ish has an HP and an M engraved, does anyone know what the M means? It's also marked as HP, higher pitch.

[hyperbolica]

Medium bore

[BGuttman]

HP means High Pitch. The instrument will behave almost as if it was in B Natural because it was based on A being around 455 Hz (instead of 440 Hz as we play today).

Many HP instruments were adapted using longer tuning slides so that they mixed better with modern instruments. In fact, instruments of the period were sometimes sold with two tuning slides: one for High Pitch and one for Low Pitch (just slightly lower than our standard).

Also note that Medium Bore in the early 20th Century was generally closer to 0.500" (12.7 mm) and not the 0.525" (13.3 mm) we use today.

[JohnL]

I think that must be a union badge. Although, pretty sure that's "Victory 34". Victor would be easier to understand...

Looking around the web, I think that's "Factory 34". Apparently, that was the Metal Polishers', Buffers' and Platers' International Union's designation for the Conn factory.

My best guess as to the whole thing:
OURLABEL
MPB
PIU
FACTORY 34