Which Would You Choose? King 3B options

[Jhereg]

If I were a Williams player and I wanted another 500 bore kinda close, I'd start with something kinda like a Williams. My impression of Williams is that they are heavy horns.

The 3B really isn't like that at all - it's relatively bright and light. It's got a bit of a cult following recently around here, and turns up as the answer to every question. They're fine horns, but at the risk of overthinking things, I think there are better instruments available.

Heavy is going to be Lawler, maybe Edwards or Shires or the Courtois 402. Schilke/Greenhoe or the Schmelzer mentioned might be a great option. Or if you're looking for a more available, affordable horn, maybe an Olds, say a Studio or Recording. Or in Conns a 30h has a great sound, and of course the 48h is fairly heavy with a nice malleable sound.

Personally, of all these, I'd pick either the Schilke/Greenhoe or 48h.

If you really don't mind a lighter horn, I'd pick a Getzen 3508 over the 3B any day. Of course it doesn't have an F attachment.

Ah ok! Thank you for this insight.
I'm embarrassed to say, I have actually never played a 3B before that I can recall. For a variety of reasons I have not attended ITF or other conventions, nor do I often get to do "hangs" or "jams" with individuals to try horns, uh...also for a variety of reasons. The only times I've gotten to try horns is during high school band festivals, or when happened to be in the area of Dillon Music, Brass Exchange, etc.

I've also never had a lot of money, so the only horns owned in my life have been a King 606, a Getzen 1047 Eterna, a Bach 42A, the Minick small bore and the Williams small bore. Umm...quality over quantity?

I'll keep your suggestions in mind for sure. At some point would love to actually get to try some of these before having to lay down everything in my bank account just to find out I've now got to sell a trombone :p Ultimately I'm very satisfied with my Williams and will be glad for anything that extends the life of that or gives me a similar playing experience.

[Jhereg]

Since the Yamaha small bores have been brought up, I find that they're pretty polarizing. I personally can't stand the 891Z or 897Z, with or without screw bell. And I've tried quite a few!

The older models (651, 653, etc.) might be a different story, and I'd love to try them. But I find that in general, most players like a small King. The staggering amount of pros that use them says something...but then again, plenty of pros use the Xenos too. So what do I know?

Having been around for the Conn 88H craze, I don't put much stock into "everyone else is doing it so it must be good"
The fact that a lot of folks use the 3B or the 88H or whatever else imo certainly speaks for the overall quality/playability of those instruments.
But does it say anything about whether that model is a good fit for ME? Probably not!

Anyway, fun to think about!

[Posaunus]

Having been around for the Conn 88H craze, I don't put much stock into "everyone else is doing it so it must be good"

The "Conn 88H craze?"
If there was such a craze, it was from the late 1950s to the late 1970s - long before you were born, Megan.

The fact that a lot of folks use the 3B or the 88H or whatever else imo certainly speaks for the overall quality/playability of those instruments.
But does it say anything about whether that model is a good fit for ME? Probably not!

Notwithstanding the above, you make a good point, Megan (as has been shown repeatedly by the bickering on this forum). Different strokes, ...

You will not find any other trombone that plays/feels/sounds like a Williams 6. You're a lucky trombonist to have even played, much less owned one (or two). But I strongly recommend that you keep it away from Disney World (and similar high-risk gigs), and play a less-valuable, more-replaceable, but still high-quality trombone. The used market is full of them!

[Jhereg]

Having been around for the Conn 88H craze, I don't put much stock into "everyone else is doing it so it must be good"

The "Conn 88H craze?"
If there was such a craze, it was from the late 1950s to the late 1970s - long before you were born, Megan.

The fact that a lot of folks use the 3B or the 88H or whatever else imo certainly speaks for the overall quality/playability of those instruments.
But does it say anything about whether that model is a good fit for ME? Probably not!

Notwithstanding the above, you make a good point, Megan (as has been shown repeatedly by the bickering on this forum). Different strokes, ...

You will not find any other trombone that plays/feels/sounds like a Williams 6. You're a lucky trombonist to have even played, much less owned one (or two). But I strongly recommend that you keep it away from Disney World (and similar high-risk gigs), and play a less-valuable, more-replaceable, but still high-quality trombone. The used market is full of them!

When I was in high school and participating in those band/orchestra County, District, Regional, State competitions, the Conn 88H was what everyone either had or wanted. The number of kids walking around with the Christian Lindburg model that mommy and daddy had bought them--with that huge rotor, I wonder if they still make that!--and the ridiculous sweatband-looking thing too! I don't recall what it was but you were supposed to put it on your bell stem and it would somehow magically transform you into a skilled musician It was legit a sweatband with "Christian Lindberg" embroidered on it. Kids who couldn't afford a new 88H were buying the sweatbands so they could look cool I guess. It was DEFINITELY a thing.

Meanwhile I went to All-State and played The Firebird Suite on a rental King 606 Now that I think about it it's no wonder everyone thought I cheated to get there.

You are so right about the Williams, and I don't wanna find an equivalent (other than to potentially protect/provide parts for the one I do have.) Exactly what I came here to ask about was two "less-valuable, more-replaceable, but still high-quality trombones." Thaaaaat's what this whole post was for. Lots of great recs, so I will look into as many as I can and/or keep this on file

[Posaunus]

The "Conn 88H craze?"
If there was such a craze, it was from the late 1950s to the late 1970s - long before you were born, Megan.

When I was in high school and participating in those band/orchestra County, District, Regional, State competitions, the Conn 88H was what everyone either had or wanted. The number of kids walking around with the Christian Lindburg model that mommy and daddy had bought them--with that huge rotor, I wonder if they still make that!--

My apologies, Megan. I completely missed the second (rebound?) Conn 88H "craze" (1990s?). I guess that happened during my ~25-year hiatus from trombone playing. You've convinced me that it was real. Never even heard about the "sweatbands."

By the way, they still make the Conn 88H CL (Christian Lindberg model). I have one, with its "huge rotor" (which works very well, thank you), acquired (used) in 2012, and enjoy playing it. Works better than my classic 88H.

[harrisonreed]

The sweatbands are sick, yo. Don't knock it 'til you tried it loool.

[Jhereg]

When I was in high school and participating in those band/orchestra County, District, Regional, State competitions, the Conn 88H was what everyone either had or wanted. The number of kids walking around with the Christian Lindburg model that mommy and daddy had bought them--with that huge rotor, I wonder if they still make that!--

My apologies, Megan. I completely missed the second (rebound?) Conn 88H "craze" (1990s?). I guess that happened during my ~25-year hiatus from trombone playing. You've convinced me that it was real. Never even heard about the "sweatbands."

By the way, they still make the Conn 88H CL (Christian Lindberg model). I have one, with its "huge rotor" (which works very well, thank you), acquired (used) in 2012, and enjoy playing it. Works better than my classic 88H.

Oh no need to apologize! You caught the initial craze it sounds like, and I think the 90s-2000s one that I experienced was the release of the Christian Lindberg model. We can't help what we were around for. It's cool that you have a CL 88H...no shade on the rotor, I just remember that it was larger than any other I'd seen.

I WILL throw shade about those sweatbands though
Apparently they were called "resistance balancers."


I guess some of them had metal pieces inside? Still. C'mon.

[Jhereg]

The sweatbands are sick, yo. Don't knock it 'til you tried it loool.

Haha well! Maybe they are good in some way but I think at the age/skill level where they were being hyped at the time I encountered them, most kids would not have known exactly what to look for in how this item would impact their sound, or whether it was an "improvement" over the stock sound of their instrument. I had forgotten about these tbh. Fun memories!

[Matt K]

There definitely seems to be a regional aspect to what is described here, and it also seems to differ pretty wildly from what age you are (high school vs college vs the orchestral world). In the "pro orchestra world" the 90s was definitely punctuated by fairly heavy bells and large slides. In the 00s as a student, I almost exclusively saw Yamahas. Nobody that I'm aware of in the state I'm in had a Conn, at least in the various All-State, Honor Band, etc. It was ALL either Yamaha or maybe Bach. In my college experience, I played a Yamaha at first (then a Bach... then later a Shires). One person had a Conn 88. Everyone else was on Greenhoe, Shires, or Edwards, at least for classical.

I did do two summers at Interlochen back in... I think 2007 and on the Jazz side we were all on Kings (I had a beautiful 3B...GSX? whatever the sterling model was). Bass bone player was on a Getzen both years. But the classical side I think I saw a smattering of everything considered professional. Which makes sense, there were people from all over the place there.

And don't knock the resistance balancers until you try them!! Actually only half joking, they do make lighter bells hold up a little under loud dynamics... if that's what you want. The one pictured also has two slots for small brass weights for maximum impact!

[harrisonreed]

I saw Lindberg do a double concerto where he came out and played alongside the principal trombone for a piece. He mopped the floor with the poor guy. He was obviously trying to really help the guy out and (since he had the piece memorized) was giving lots of visual cues and trying to interact with the other guy. Poor unnamed dude's lip went about halfway through the piece...

I don't want to say it was completely because he had the sweatband on that he sounded so present and good, but Lindberg definitely had his sweatband on. Maybe 95% of the reason.

The image of Richard Simmons coming out to do a workout with the P90X guy and proceeding to smoke him by sweating to the oldies until he crumbles into a heap comes to mind. Sweatband and all.

Also, for real though -- that pic you posted of the sweatband -- you secretly just snapped that pic and are pretending like it isn't yours. Be honest

[Jhereg]

There definitely seems to be a regional aspect to what is described here, and it also seems to differ pretty wildly from what age you are (high school vs college vs the orchestral world). In the "pro orchestra world" the 90s was definitely punctuated by fairly heavy bells and large slides. In the 00s as a student, I almost exclusively saw Yamahas. Nobody that I'm aware of in the state I'm in had a Conn, at least in the various All-State, Honor Band, etc. It was ALL either Yamaha or maybe Bach. In my college experience, I played a Yamaha at first (then a Bach... then later a Shires). One person had a Conn 88. Everyone else was on Greenhoe, Shires, or Edwards, at least for classical.

I did do two summers at Interlochen back in... I think 2007 and on the Jazz side we were all on Kings (I had a beautiful 3B...GSX? whatever the sterling model was). Bass bone player was on a Getzen both years. But the classical side I think I saw a smattering of everything considered professional. Which makes sense, there were people from all over the place there.

And don't knock the resistance balancers until you try them!! Actually only half joking, they do make lighter bells hold up a little under loud dynamics... if that's what you want. The one pictured also has two slots for small brass weights for maximum impact!

Agree, I'm from Pennsylvania and a very small town where music was not a priority. Did not see diversity (on a lot of levels) until I got to Regional Band, which is when kids from the actual large cities would be present. Few people in my County/District would have had a budget for, or access to, Greenhoe or Shires horns. The 88H was available and affordable + marketed very heavily from what I recall of the conventions and catalogues available.

Like I said in the previous comment(s), I'm sure the resistance bands had some benefits for someone out there. But young kids just learning to make good sounds maybe didn't know what to listen for when applying them, and very likely just bought them to look cool or like they knew what was up. I could be completely incorrect about that, just describing what I saw and experienced in person, there, at the time.