Olds S-23 bass trigger mod/conversion...who to contact?

[Chazzer69]

I recently acquired this animal but the trigger setup (dependent, side-by-side, a mile behind the brace) is just not operable by a normal human thumb. Maybe if my thumb was another inch long and had another joint, it would be possible. I kinda dig this horn and want to keep it for occasional use. I'm looking for recommended (and responsive) brass techs that I might contact to get these redesigned and reconstructed.

TIA for your help!

[JohnL]

I swear, some of the earlier Olds trigger linkages look like they're designed for you to tuck you thumb under the lever(s) and only reach for them when you need to use the valve.

Are you looking to stay local or are you willing to ship it?

[Chazzer69]

I thought about that very question before I posted and decided to leave it open. I'm willing to ship it, but the least distance the better to keep a little of the cost down. I don't want to spend as much to ship it back and forth as it would cost me to get the work done.

[JohnL]

Here in SoCal, I'd go with either Brad Close (https://brassmedic.com/) or John Sandhagen (https://www.facebook.com/p/THE-BONEYARD ... 618366750/)

[Chazzer69]

Thanks, I'll keep them in mind.

[monte]

I'm a new member, but also a past owner of this particular Olds model.

That S-23 was one great sounding bass trombone, TIS, 10 inch bell.. but at the cost of an outstandingly stuffy valve register, and even worse, borderline unusable ergonomics. The slide was maybe the widest I ever played, and the trigger configuration was just plain bad - not even in a polarizing way like the ones with rollers.

I talked to multiple techs about a split trigger conversion, which would normally cost a few hundred €'s here in Europe (shouldn't be that much different in the States).
With this Olds S-23, it would have easily been a solid 4-digit number - which is more than the cost of the instrument itself. Its whole construction is unconvential, starting with the stops and springs being integrated into the valves. The rotation and angles of the valves made it hard for me to even imagine how a split trigger mechanism would have looked like.

For me personally, this mod would have been too expensive. I sold the Olds for the same price, even though it sounded classy, tenor-like in the upper range, at the same time round and powerful (sonorous?).

Anyway - If you should have yours converted, I would love to see photos of the mechanism!

[hyperbolica]

I had an S-20 (single valve) and converted it with a Duo Gravis double valve set. It wasn't the kind of bass you'd want to play if you needed a warm fuzzy velvety sound on the bottom end, but god, did that thing rock. I just had a local shop do it, and the result was a little mechanically wonky in places. So yeah, I'd try to pick someone who knows something about Olds bigger horns.

[Chazzer69]

I'm a new member, but also a past owner of this particular Olds model.

That S-23 was one great sounding bass trombone, TIS, 10 inch bell.. but at the cost of an outstandingly stuffy valve register, and even worse, borderline unusable ergonomics. The slide was maybe the widest I ever played, and the trigger configuration was just plain bad - not even in a polarizing way like the ones with rollers.

I talked to multiple techs about a split trigger conversion, which would normally cost a few hundred €'s here in Europe (shouldn't be that much different in the States).
With this Olds S-23, it would have easily been a solid 4-digit number - which is more than the cost of the instrument itself. Its whole construction is unconvential, starting with the stops and springs being integrated into the valves. The rotation and angles of the valves made it hard for me to even imagine how a split trigger mechanism would have looked like.

For me personally, this mod would have been too expensive. I sold the Olds for the same price, even though it sounded classy, tenor-like in the upper range, at the same time round and powerful (sonorous?).

Anyway - If you should have yours converted, I would love to see photos of the mechanism!

It's apparently been done before by Daniel Oberloh. See: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=6976 But I can't tell how successful it was or even what the end product really looked like from this post as he mixes it up with mods on another horn. I reached out to him by email about it but didn't get a response. I have someone I'm going to send it to that is willing to take it on and has a stellar reputation. I'll have to see what the estimate is before I follow through with it but I really hope it works out. I got the horn for an absolute steal so I'm willing to put a few extra bucks into it.

[Chazzer69]

And then I dug a little deeper and did find a photo of Oberloh's end product: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=10280 I can't begin to guess from the photos as to whether or not it was an improvement. Looks like he moved the trigs from a side-by-side configuration to a front and back or top and bottom (depending on your perspective) kinda thing.

[JohnL]

And then I dug a little deeper and did find a photo of Oberloh's end product: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=10280 I can't begin to guess from the photos as to whether or not it was an improvement. Looks like he moved the trigs from a side-by-side configuration to a front and back or top and bottom (depending on your perspective) kinda thing.

He's changed the kinematics completely; I suspect most people would find this layout less uncomfortable than the original. It may well have been the best he could come up with and still use the original valves.

EDIT: After some consideration, I'm thinking you'd be much better off with a local tech. It's something that's going to need to be fitted to your hand, and that's not easily done via the internet.

[elmsandr]

For amusement…. I once owned one of these that had a single Thayer conversion. Was a really fascinating horn. In some ways, I wish I had kept it but it wasn’t something that ever fit in the rotation.

But a complete valve change allowed the entire lever situation to be thrown out and just replaced with something reasonable. Don’t be afraid to go big on changes if it just isn’t working.

Cheers,
Andy

[Chazzer69]

For amusement…. I once owned one of these that had a single Thayer conversion. Was a really fascinating horn. In some ways, I wish I had kept it but it wasn’t something that ever fit in the rotation.

But a complete valve change allowed the entire lever situation to be thrown out and just replaced with something reasonable. Don’t be afraid to go big on changes if it just isn’t working.

Cheers,
Andy

Did you have the work done or did you acquire it with the mods in place?

[JohnL]

For amusement…. I once owned one of these that had a single Thayer conversion.

John Sandhagen built one like that a few years back. It turned out pretty well, though I believe the guy he built it for eventually ended up selling it on.

If a full valve/wrap replacement is on the table, that opens up one's options as far as linkages go.

[elmsandr]

Did you have the work done or did you acquire it with the mods in place?

It was done for somebody else by someone in SoCal… not John S, but I’m forgetting the name right now. This was quite a few years ago.

Cheers,
Andy

[JohnL]

It was done for somebody else by someone in SoCal… not John S, but I’m forgetting the name right now. This was quite a few years ago.

Do you recall if they left the valve in the same position or moved it closer to the tenon?

[elmsandr]

It was done for somebody else by someone in SoCal… not John S, but I’m forgetting the name right now. This was quite a few years ago.

Do you recall if they left the valve in the same position or moved it closer to the tenon?

Moved it closer to the tenon and had a weird S pipe in the neckpipe area as a result.

Still have some pics somewhere, gotta see if I can find them,
Andy