Small bore lead trombone mouthpiece suggestions?

[RanchCrouton]

I’ve been playing second trombone in my high school jazz band but recently got put on first for a song that’s a little out of my range.
I’ve resorted to playing on my 12C again to make it more manageable but I’m not able to get notes like high C and C# out with consistency.

Does anyone have any suggestions?


If wondering the song, it’s Channel 1 Suite as from the Buddy Rich Big Band
Thank you!

[Kingfan]

Welcome to the group! What mouthpiece were you using prior to the 12C? What horn are you playing? Both those bits of info could help narrow things down. I suggest a Skype session with Doug Elliott, a member of this chat forum. He can evaluate you and make very good suggestions on technique and mouthpieces. http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/

[Rusty]

A shallower mouthpiece can help bring out the higher overtones in the sound for an easier, brighter upper register that projects well, but if the rim is too small in diameter for your face it can actually hamper high and low range, as well as volume. Depending on what you played before the 12c and your horn, something in the 7c to 11c range would be worth a shot. Deeper and more open mouthpieces like a Bach 6.5 AL make a nice full sound but are often more work to play strenuous lead with a bright, projecting sound.

[CharlieB]

To the OP ^^^
The Bach 12C is pretty small for your Getzen 725.
You might want to try a mouthpiece with a slightly larger rim and bore, but smaller than your 6.5AL
Schilke 47, or King M21 would be good candidates.
Used examples of those are for sale in the "Classified" section of this forum.

[RanchCrouton]

Thank you all for your suggestions! I’m playing in a Getzen 725 right now.
I’ve found that my 12C fits my mouth much better than the 6 1/2 AL. I definitely get winded much faster on the larger mouthpiece.

[SteveFoote]

You asked a specific question and got specific answers which are vague but correct. Trouble is you can't just go out and buy a mouthpiece which will suddenly give you a C sharp. Mouthpieces are somewhat unique to the individual. That is why there are at least a zillion mouthpieces for sale.
I looked a little deeper into this.
Not familiar with the tune but I found the score on-line. Looks like this has the 1st Trumpet going to F sharp four spaces above the staff. 1st Trombone doubles 2nd Trumpet going to a C sharp (D sharp for the trumpet). I don't know about your HS band but I would be very much surprised if you have trumpets that can manage these notes. I listened to a few YT videos and did not hear any screeching trumpets. Seems like other bands are not playing these notes.
Rather than changing mouthpieces to try and suddenly play a C sharp, I would talk to your director about re-arranging this one section to suit your band's abilities. The chords appear to be triads so the parts actually overlap with an octave or two separation.
Don't ruin your embouchure trying to perform notes you are not ready for. Keep playing and you will get there!

[AndrewMeronek]

I’m not able to get notes like high C and C# out with consistency.

A different mouthpiece really won't make that much of a difference to basic range unless you make a pretty extreme change. But - spending the time to find the right mouthpiece for you can make a difference in a general combination of effects that can make playing generally easier. That "right mouthpiece" will be different for everyone. The mouthpiece is pretty much the most personal piece of equipment on the trombone.

And:

You know the usual: practice, practice, practice, and practice smarter.

[afugate]

We performed Channel One Suite my junior year in HS. Won a state championship with it here in Oklahoma. Our lead trumpet, Paul Stephens, went on to play lead trumpet for Maynard Ferguson and for the US Army Jazz Ambassadors. Our lead tenor, Vince Norman, also played with the JAs. I played the lead bone part. Loved it, but it was definitely a challenge.

My advice is to reach out to Doug Elliott to learn how to play those notes correctly. (FWIW, I learned to play up there incorrectly and believe that contributed to my chops failing on me decades later.)

--Andy in OKC

[Doug Elliott]

Wow, I had no idea you guys all went to high school together. I toured with Paul before he was in the JA's.

[blap73]

I agree with the above that the mouthpiece alone isn't going to gain you much more than a note or two of high range. I also agree that a 12C is pretty small. Your comment that the 12C 'fits' you better than the 6.5AL matches my experience. For whatever reason the 6.5AL is just wrong on my mouth.

A couple thoughts if you want something 'between'. Bach (or Faxx) 7C or a Yamaha 48. Several shops let you order / try / return mouthpieces. [Although beware the honeymoon effect where it is great at first, then not so much!]

[220FifthSstreet]

Small bore mouthpiece? I have used a Bach (New York) 22C since in was in junior high. A bit later, in college, our Director was a BIG BORE fan so ! obtained a Reynolds Argenta trombone and used the mouthpiece that came with it for a time, then moved to a Bach 7C which was like falling into a pail. I have also doubled on tuba and used a Helleberg mouthpiece. I recently found a mouthpiece that fits my little Olds trombone...it has a narrow rim, and a very deep conical cup, almost like a Helleberg tuba mouthpiece, only smaller. I believe it is a mouthpiece for a tenor bugle stamped with the name Ludwig. If I recall correctly, Holton made the Ludwig G piston bugles but I have never seen a Holton trombone mouthpiece that looks like this one. I haven't decided if I like it yet, but it rides on my smaller bore horns comfortably.

[dcslideman]

You mentioned getting "winded" quickly on the 6 1/2 AL. I would guess that is more about the throat than the rim size. The 6 1/2 Al has a "G" throat (.261" dia.) which is quite a bit larger than the 12C throat at .230" dia. Many of the mouthpieces in the 11- 6 3/4 range(and equivalents) still have a .230 to .240 throat which may reduce air need. As an aside, for many years my go-to mouthpiece for .525 bore was a Bach 7 with a special E throat(.250") which paired well for me.