Look at this...

[mcphatty00]

Passed through my insta

[Burgerbob]

yup, typical banda mouthpiece

[mcphatty00]

I mean, they look great, but... How do they play?

[Burgerbob]

Probably great, if you play banda C valve trombone on the regular

[mcphatty00]

No sir

[bassclef]

A lot of banda players also use double cup mouthpieces I have come to learn. All of the mouthpieces seem to either be super shallow and/or have a double cup. I saw a double-cup sousaphone version from one of the makers who only seem to exist to supply banda mouthpieces which looked pretty wild. Producing that tone quality & volume level for that amount of time without literally destroying your body makes a lot more sense after I looked at the mouthpieces that most players seem to use.

I've actually been kind of obsessed with banda music for the last few weeks. This video features a "battle" between two of my favorite groups:

[Kbiggs]

A lot of banda players also use double cup mouthpieces I have come to learn. All of the mouthpieces seem to either be super shallow and/or have a double cup. I saw a double-cup sousaphone version from one of the makers who only seem to exist to supply banda mouthpieces which looked pretty wild. Producing that tone quality & volume level for that amount of time without literally destroying your body makes a lot more sense after I looked at the mouthpieces that most players seem to use.

Yep, it makes sense. It’s such a wild, exuberant sound. And the bands are usually very tight. If I’m feeling pretty down, sometimes I’ll turn on banda music.

Off topic #1: It looks like a lot of banda players play with a medium or low-placement. That probably contributes to the tone quality as well. I wonder whether it’s a self-selecting factor?

Off topic #2: There doesn’t seem to be much written (in English) about banda music. Yes, I’m biased because I don’t read/speak any foreign languages. It’s a huge area of music that non-Spanish speakers seem to know little of.

[Doug Elliott]

Are those King valve trombones converted to C?
The second soloist plays possibly the loudest double Bb I've ever heard.
Amazing stuff.

[Burgerbob]

Yes, lots of horns cut down to C. There's also a few modern makes that do them in C (jupiter for instance)

[bassclef]

Are those King valve trombones converted to C?
The second soloist plays possibly the loudest double Bb I've ever heard.
Amazing stuff.

Yes, I believe so. I have checked out a few King valve trombones recently and they actually seem to be built for an easy conversion from Bb to C. It looks like the "slide" is made with a section of tubing which is easy to remove and then put the crook back on.

Skip ahead to 33:45 in that video. Really slick arrangement of Besame Mucho which features one of the trombone players on a King Silversonic.

[jacobgarchik]

https://www.amazon.com/Banda-Mexican-Mu ... 0819564303

Helena Simonett is an academic and musicologist. This book is a great oversight of the music up until the mid 90s or so. Of course, the whole scene has changed a lot since then.

I know a little bit as a fan and leader of a band in Brooklyn that plays my transcriptions of many classic arrangements from the 40s-60s.

A few years back I got to hang out with Banda el Recodo as they filmed a music video in Brooklyn. Great guys. talked to them for a few hours about music and their lives.

It's a whole universe of music, as rich and complex as any US or European brass tradition. amateur bands, pro bands, people with conservatory training, bands reading music, bands learning by ear. Used to common place for bands to play classical music. Some bands resemble concert bands, with flute and saxophone sections. Some bands have parts replaced by synthesizers.

[jacobgarchik]

Just to give you a sense of the massive scale of banda music, compared to what we think of as "mainstream" brass playing and culture,
the video that Banda el Recodo filmed in Brooklyn (that I had a hand in facilitating) has 389 million views.



so...which mouthpieces are the unusual ones and which are the normal ones in the brass world as a whole?

[bassclef]

I just bought that book, Jacob. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also, to your point - how many other horn-based ensembles in any genre can fill an arena with their crowd?

[jacobgarchik]

Well, several other bandas can, lol.
Otherwise perhaps only Balkan brass bands can. The Gucca festival in Serbia has 600,000 attendees over several days. Another entire universe of musical tradition, with it's own peculiarities of instruments, mouthpieces, instrumentation, etc

[JohnL]

The second soloist plays possibly the loudest double Bb I've ever heard.

Occasionally, someone in my neighborhood will hire a banda group for a party. You can hear the sousaphone player for blocks. Playing like that for 3-4 hours at a go requires serious chops.

Used to be, Parduba and Rudy Mück mouthpieces were pretty much curiosities; I think there was a period of time for each make when they were out production. Then banda music took off and there was suddenly a viable market again. Now there's at least one company (Garibaldi) making mouthpieces specifically for the banda and mariachi market.

[modelerdc]

King makes or did make a valve section in C, and I've owned a Yamaha section in C. In this case the horn uses a regular B flat trombone bell, only the slide section is about 2 positions shorter than normal, with all the valves a little shorter too. This are factory horns not chop jobs. Plays better than in B flat, less resistance helps the valve bone. valve bones in c are the norm in parts of the world, including Meso and South America. Juan Tizol played a valved bone in C as did Raul de Souza

[Doug Elliott]

I knew all of that except I didn't know King sold them that way. What bore size? 2B or 3B bell?

[Finetales]

I've played a few banda C valve trombones. They're tons of fun and feel pretty different to a Bb. With a "normal" mouthpiece, some almost play and sound more like altos. I'd love to try a proper banda mouthpiece with one.

[bassclef]

I knew all of that except I didn't know King sold them that way. What bore size? 2B or 3B bell?

I am not 100% sure, but attached are a couple pics of what I was talking about. I could be wrong too, maybe a conversion would require a saw instead of only a soldering torch. These are pics of a vintage 2B and a modern 2166, respectively.

kingvalvetrombone.png

kingvalvetrombone2.png