Shallow but wide mouthpiece

[tychoridder]

Hey all!

earlier this year I made a topic about wanting a shallower mouthpiece, and I was thinking of the bach 15EW. After the answer I received, I determined I not only needed a new mouthpiece to be shallower, but also a bit wider than my bach 18c. As such, I looked and found an earlier topic with a suggestion for a JK Exclusive Trombone 7E S1, which was described as "very shallow". Today, I received it in the mail. It is not what I was looking for. Though the wideness is nice, and it does play more comfortable compared to the 18c, I am noticing that due to the amount of depth I find it much harder to reach the upper register compared to the 18c. As such, my question is: Do any of you guys know about a mouthpiece with an inner cup diameter of 25-25.5mm but very shallow like the bach 15EW?

Thanks!

[EriKon]

Instead of buying several pieces that don't fit your playing, save the bucks and use them to buy a Doug Elliott setup that fits your description and your playing. Let Doug see you play and he'll have a proper recommendation for you.

[harrisonreed]

This is your second post about playing tiny tiny mouthpieces to get the upper register to work. I don't know about your playing, but before you worry about range and how the mouthpiece affects that, I'd start with consulting a teacher or a colleague about a proper practice regimen to achieve a better upper register.

I'd recommend something like a 6.5AL without knowing anything else about your playing, and a ton of practice.

[tychoridder]

Instead of buying several pieces that don't fit your playing, save the bucks and use them to buy a Doug Elliott setup that fits your description and your playing. Let Doug see you play and he'll have a proper recommendation for you.

I understand, but I find 260 bucks for a mouthpiece quite expensive. Adding to that the 40 bucks for international shipping without knowing if I'll enjoy the mouthpiece quite a large gamble.

[tychoridder]

This is your second post about playing tiny tiny mouthpieces to get the upper register to work. I don't know about your playing, but before you worry about range and how the mouthpiece affects that, I'd start with consulting a teacher or a colleague about a proper practice regimen to achieve a better upper register.

I'd recommend something like a 6.5AL without knowing anything else about your playing, and a ton of practice.

For the pieces of mendelsohn I am playing I did plan in a practice session with my old teacher. The notes are ridiculously high, which is why I am considering alternative mouthpieces. The problems start arriving after G4, where A4 still hits consistently but afterwards its more guesswork.

[BGuttman]

By the time you have bought 3 or 4 tiny shallow mouthpieces to try you have spent the same $260 (and you will need to buy that many or more).

Unless you are a transferring trumpet or french horn player I'd stay away from the tiny mouthpieces. Most will give you a lousy sound in the normal trombone register.

There are great rangebuilding exercises that can increase your range on any setup. It just takes time and practice. I know. I got my range up to be able to play IGSOY in D on my bass trombone (1¼ G mouthpiece).

[Doldom]

If you're using King 3B as your profile says, I would use something like Bach 6.75C. I'm using DE LT C+ cup and D3 shank for King 3BFSS and I think it's good match. Actually a little deeper than Bach C cup. If you go shallower than C cup, it is not a good match with King 3B. I have DE B cup (shallower than C cup) and while it's great on alto trombone and bass trumpet, it's not so good on King 3B. If you're constantly suffering above G4, check if your instrument is ok. Blow on your colleague's trombone and see if the problems are gone or not.
And generally low range practice is beneficial to unlock high range. Don't solely focus on high range but work on pedal range. If you cannot blow pedal Bb(Bb1) on your new mouthpiece, then it's not the right mouthpiece, or more practice is needed before playing high parts.

[Kdanielsen]

All the mouthpieces that I can think of that fit your description are going to cost $200-300. Bach 6 3/4C has been the most cost effective suggestion so far probably.

[JeffBone44]

I could be wrong, but it seems that a 12C should be the smallest that you would need to use on trombone. 15 and smaller is very rare. And if you play something like an 18, chances are that you're hurting your low range.

[harrisonreed]

There is a good case to say that Mendelssohn wrote for alto trombone on the top part. Many orchestras seem to have alto on 1st for that composer.

I'd use my 2A mouthpiece and my 36H for a lot of his works.

[MrHCinDE]

Compared to some on the forum I have a modest high range and did struggle around G4/A4 in the past but these days it‘s pretty solid and I‘ve recently played notes under pressure on stage (not just noodling around at home!) that would have been simply unthinkable for me a few years ago.

Why? I have a Klier 7E and the DE C+ Setup with D3 shank which I’ve used with a King 3BF and can say that whilst my sound and stamina might be a bit better on the DE, there‘s not really any difference in range. The larger range is accessible on pretty much any tenor trombone and mouthpiece combo I pick up these days (again, sound and stamina aside) so at least in my case equipment was not the issue.

The range came primarily after reading and trying some advice on here, lots of low range and lip flexibility practice and ultimately a one hour session with Doug which gave me the tools to work on this myself. It‘s understandable to be concerned about having $260+ stranded in something which you may not like, better to spend whatever Doug (or another teacher skilled in these topics) is asking for an hour lesson. That will almost certainly not be a waste of money.

[ssking2b]

Try the Marcinkiewicz DAVE STEINMEYER model. Wide and shallow! I use it on my alto trombone with success, and have playe4d it on a 2B and a 3B. It's too shallow for me, but Steinmeyer played it on a 2B and a Martin .500 bore horn.

[dembones]

From my experience, Doug Elliott will work with you in a very fair manner to make sure you have what works, in that he will exchange parts or refund while you figure that out. So the risk in purchasing is less than with makers who don't allow returns. He also brings a wealth of knowledge and insight that is well worth at least considering. If you're uncertain as to what you need to help you sound your best, I recommend taking a lesson or consultation with him.

[tbonesullivan]

I play with a Bass trombone player who got a Doug Elliott piece a month or so ago. It took some parts being sent back and forth to get it just right, but now it's her favorite piece and she sounds awesome on it.

[Finetales]

You can get any Warburton cup depth with any rim. My lead mouthpiece is an 8S, very shallow but with a 4-sized rim. You could get a 10S or something. The Warburton Rosolino has fewer options but is even shallower.