3B Slide Mod/repair options

[harrisonreed]

Hey there. Love my 3BF-SS. The slide takes a lot of work to keep useable, and ain't getting better. When I bought it, there was some chrome pitting on the slide stockings, which was disclosed fully in the ad. When it's whistle clean, with good slide stuff on there, it works great, but man you know how it is -- you don't have time to fully swab and reapply ultrapure every three hours. And so by day two of just wiping the inners and adding a bit more lube, the slide is pretty slow.

So, what are my options? Ideally I want a slide that works well, is a 3B slide, and maybe has swappable leadpipes.
Are the new 3B slides any good? Last one I tried was from 2019, and it was pretty good. But buying a new 3B slide is probably expensive and doesn't get me removable leadpipes...

I've heard that removing the leadpipe might potentially destroy it completely, and that if I go the repair route and get replacement inners, they have to remove the leadpipe anyways, so maybe that is the answer. Anyone replace the inner tubes on their 3B slide? What's that cost?

Anything I'm not thinking of? Is there a different stock slide that is better, that is compatible or can be made to work, and already has leadpipe options?

Thanks!!

[Burgerbob]

Sounds like you just need new inners, if the outers are straight.

[BGuttman]

It really sounds like your chrome plating is lifting on the inner tube. Only permanent fix is to replace the inner tube since getting something chrome plated is getting more and more difficult.

Removing the leadpipe should be no big deal if the slide is under 20 years old. The real problem comes with very old slides where the leadpipe may be corroded into the inner. Note that King uses a 2 piece leadpipe and is a little trickier to remove or replace.

I'm going to duck the cost angle since I'm not a Tech, but replacing the inner should not be terribly expensive. The tubes run about $50 each and then there is labor.

In any case, the total cost should be less than a new King slide and even more below the cost of getting a Shires or Edwards slide and modifying the tenon to fit.

[OneTon]

You could contact Chuck Ward for pricing. He replaced all 4 tubes on an Olds Studio for me. The Jiggs Whiggam inner upper tube he used came with a leadpipe in it. Chuck Ward said the leadpipes were very close and we used it the way it was. He sent me the Olds leadpipe in case I changed my mind. And it was very, very close. He can do removable leadpipes as well but it may drive up the cost some. I think 4 tubes cost $700.00 with plating. Inner tubes will be cheaper. That was some time ago.

[ithinknot]

If your instrument is mid-70s-ish or earlier, you've still got the one piece leadpipe, and that's not a replaceable part. (I'm sure you could find alternatives you'd like, but that's not the point.)

Replacing the inners isn't necessarily going to give you the action of a brand new, well made slide. There's outer condition to consider too, and beyond a point tube straightening isn't infinitely perfectable.

If I were you, I liked the instrument as is, and it was getting a lot of professional use, I'd keep the existing slide as a backup, and have someone build me a new leadpipeless slide with King parts (which are pretty cheap - and compared to a full retube, you're only talking about the extra cost of grip components and a new crook).

Don't pay retail for a new factory slide (and roll the dice on current assembly quality) if you already know you'd want to swap the pipe. I recently played a 3B 125th Anniversary Edition (so 2018/19 production). Slide wasn't bad, certainly, but it wasn't Shires/Rath-good either, and I imagine careful tube prep and assembly from a serious tech would get you something more in that ballpark.

[JLivi]

I've owned one straight 3b for almost 20 years now, and picked up a 3bf from Tom (greenbean) a few years ago.

On my straight horn, I've replaced the crook and both inner tubes. I've had no issues with that slide, although it's never been a pristine slide. I owned it from age 16 to now so I think the slide might've gotten beat up a bit in high school, college and the road. It'll never be better than an 7/10 or 8/10. But it's my baby and I never plan to sell or replace that horn.

When I received the 3bf from Tom, it was one of the nicer slides I had every played. Over time it's gotten it's fair share of little dings, but it's still in great shape. I'm not sure what work was done to it before I received it, but it looks like the inner tubes were replaced as well.

Edit: I just checked the slide and it looks like it light the the original tubes on the 3bf. Hard to tell though.

I say all that to tell you that replacing your inners sounds like a good move. And while they're at it you might as well make the lead pipe removable.

I would not recommend buying anything new from Conn-Selmer. A really good friend of mine is an endorsed artist and has received a couple of brand new horns from them and within weeks he has always run into issues (slide and lacquer issues mainly). But if that's the type of horns they send to their artists, then I don't want to know what they'd send a regular customer. Quality control just doesn't seem to be that great.

[Matt K]

If you swap out the upper inner, you do t have to worry about removing the leadpipe. I had Brad close add a large bore “bi thread” adapter on my 3BF as well as a large shank threaded 32H pipe. But he was just able to remove the pipe. That setup works well but I decided I wanted to try a 607F with a 500 upper… so I have that being worked on now by crazytbone86 who is localish to me.

Several years ago I had a 2B+ upper inner/outer swapped out and ordered a threaded shires corkbarrel added on the top. Ben Griffin helped me order the right parts and a Pittsburgh shop put it together. Was a wonderful slide. I still kick myself for selling that horn… I think I’ll prefer the 607 I’m having made in 500/525 in yellow brass with a nicke crook but.. if I ever hit the lottery I’ll have another one of those made too.

[brassmedic]

I'm going to duck the cost angle since I'm not a Tech, but replacing the inner should not be terribly expensive. The tubes run about $50 each and then there is labor.

Maybe a long time ago. Now inner slide tubes are about $120 each for King. Bach inners are over $150.

[harrisonreed]

Jeez. I mean, $300~ isn't that horrible for tubes, but the leadpipe issue (I'll need a new one, and good ones always seem to be $150) plus cost of installation .... Ouch.

I'll start saving. Definitely will need it in a year or so.

[BGuttman]

Do you have a repair guy in the Band? Having someone local might be easier than shipping all the way to the USA.

Also, what's the market for Yamaha 691 slides that could easily be converted to King tenon?

[harrisonreed]

No there is no repair person in the army band, period. At least not in the normal army bands.

[BGuttman]

I was just asking because all the good techs seem to be half a world away, between Europe and the US.

[Rusty]

I would look for a nice older slide from someone like DJ, I had an Anniversary 3BSS that had been paired with a late 50s slide, and it was the best 3b slide I’ve played, I ended up having the leadpipe pulled (and saved), and it’s the 1-piece pipe, slots in the upper register like nothing else.

[Bonearzt]

First off, I would suggest trying a cream instead of a liquid, I find that creams tend to "fill in" the pits and help the slide run easier. Also skip the mist sprayers and use something to get a lot of water on the slide.

A new slide from a big name manufacturer is ALWAYS a crap shoot!! Except for Yamaha.

New inner tubes will run at LEAST $100-150+ each plus labor.
I also suggest ordering at least 3 leadpipes when the time comes as they will all play just a bit differently.

And be forewarned that your slide will NOT play exactly the same as it does now.

[harrisonreed]

Thanks for the tips, everyone.

I know that the horn won't play the same with a new or modded slide, but that's OK. I just need it to play, and be smooth. And the different leadpipes would be a bonus.

There are many good techs in Tokyo but they ... Almost don't want my business. The few jobs I've brought in, they have basically said "It won't play the same, so we won't do this". Even stripping lacquer, which I want so the horn plays different, they won't do it because "it will play different". I've seen their work, they are great, but it's like I need to prove that I have more "music points" than them for them to do any work that isn't a straight repair.

[TromboneSam]

I had Freddie at Dillon replace a 3B inner a few years back. I think it was the tenon side. I bought the tube from Dawkes Music and between the labor, part, and shipping I think it was about $200. Pretty good all things considered.

[HermanGerman]

Good inners are made by Yamaha and Kuhnl and Hoyer, the King slide is always a mess...and I really love my 3B.
My slide from 1975 has some wear and I use water spray and Hetman Hydro Slide mix plus a small amount of Slide-o-mix or the Yamaha stuff. This works really nice. I tried my old scholl Conn cream but it did not work. Polishing the inner slide and inner outer with a polish or simple toothpaste helps me to keep the metal surface smooth.

[Matt K]

Does Yamaha make a nickel outer? I’m thinking it might be more an outer slide than an inner slide thing. Oddly enough, the student kings I’ve played can have surprisingly impressive slides… all of which have yellow outers.

[JohnD]

Years ago, I tried a 0.500 slide (Benge 170 / 2B+) on my 3BF. Fantastic! If you can't get hands on 0.508 tubes, you might want to opt for 0.500s. This is what I will do just in case my slide passes away and I then cannot find any .508 original replacement parts. OTOH, .500 tubes of fine quality should be available easily.
Greetz, John

[MrHCinDE]

Years ago, I tried a 0.500 slide (Benge 170 / 2B+) on my 3BF. Fantastic! If you can't get hands on 0.508 tubes, you might want to opt for 0.500s. This is what I will do just in case my slide passes away and I then cannot find any .508 original replacement parts. OTOH, .500 tubes of fine quality should be available easily.
Greetz, John

I‘d agree that the 0.500“ Benge 170 slide on a 3BF is a fantastic setup, the 0.508“ slide on the Benge is also quite interesting. Those horns can also be great in their original setups so if you happen to have both (or a 2B+ and 3BF) there are a lot of options open.

I don‘t know how well the smaller slide would work on a silversonic? I don‘t have one around anymore. The silversonic can take so much air that I speculate (yes, pure guesswork) that a 0.500“ might back up a little (depending on the leadpipe, mouthpiece and player). Then again, a silversonic 2B can sound pretty awesome with an even smaller slide so who knows?

[harrisonreed]

Sorry to bring up this thread again. What shop exists that I can ask for a 3B style, 3B compatible slide with interchangeable leadpipes, and get something outstanding without having to fly all over kingdom come?

Basically, "here's what I want, here's my money" and not have to worry about it. Any shops doing stuff like that any more? I know Brass Lab probably could do it, but they are closed.

[Bonearzt]

Sorry to bring up this thread again. What shop exists that I can ask for a 3B style, 3B compatible slide with interchangeable leadpipes, and get something outstanding without having to fly all over kingdom come?

Basically, "here's what I want, here's my money" and not have to worry about it. Any shops doing stuff like that any more? I know Brass Lab probably could do it, but they are closed.

DM what you want done and we can discuss.

[harrisonreed]

Just wanted to report that Scott Sweeney did the job I had in mind in the OP up above and I got so much value for my money. Original one piece leadpipe was saved and made press-fit, inners replaced with new tubes, outers polished on the inside and put back into round. He removed all the lacquer and did a brushed satin finish. Valve was serviced. It's like a brand new horn. The rumours that removing the lacquer on the Silversonics will free them up are true.

I'm waiting on my Brad Close pipe from the Brass Ark, which is going to be late summer I guess, but the thing now plays like a dream. It'll be great to try the Brass Ark pipe!

If anyone is in a similar situation, give Sweeney Brass a shot -- it seems like doing the procedure everyone wants for their vintage 3B's is a specialty of his. As for me, my 3BF can now only be pried from my cold dead hands.

[OneTon]

Glad it worked out. Old horns can come back pretty good.