Fast legato triplet—play it or fake it?

[Stefano]

Any suggestions on playing this 16th note triplet at 150 BPM? From 26 or 6 to 4.

[harrisonreed]

Got an example? IIRC nothing in that chart is too fast to be played clean.

[Stefano]

Sorry. Forgot about image.

[AndrewMeronek]

Is that from an arrangement in a different key from the original? That lick doesn't really fit in my memory of that tune, but that kind of triplet figure sometimes is used by sloppy arrangers to indicate a gliss - in this case, an impossible one if it's supposed to start from that B.

[Stefano]

An arrangement by “Sachio Nang.” Not sure if it is in the original key. Could look it up. Lots of glisses marked in the score.

Playable as marked and at that speed? Do I just need better technique?

[Doug Elliott]

I think if you listen to the original your question will be answered.
It's the opening lick, the first thing you play.
It's probably written that way for the trumpet and sax.

[AndrewMeronek]

Playable as marked and at that speed? Do I just need better technique?

Technically, that is playable. Just awkward, not just playing-wise but style-wise.

[Doug Elliott]

"Sachio Nang is a musician, composer, orchestrator, arranger, music director, and multi-instrumentalist out of Skokie, Illinois. Sachio specializes in pit orchestra and accompanist work, and has also played with ensembles of many sizes throughout the Chicagoland area. He has performed in many settings as choirs, bands, orchestras, big bands, and church settings. An avid multi-instrumentalist, he is proficient in not only piano (his primary) but guitars, bass, drums/percussion, and reeds. He has also conducted several pit orchestras both from the piano and stick conducting! He enjoys working with theatre companies around the Chicagoland area..."

...not a trombone player

[BGuttman]

Listen to the tune as played by Chicago. It's available free on-line. Just use the right name: "25 or 6 to 4" You can easily match what Jimmy Pankow did with that lick (hint: not quite a gliss).

[Doug Elliott]

I think it's usually a gliss A to E, and that's how I've always played it, but...

However in this super early 1970 video, it's obviously just A to E in 2nd.


Same here, not sure what year it's from:

[Rusty]

As mentioned listen to the recording and make it sound like you’re hearing it. Personally, I’d tongue it dah, da-ul-ah…not quite a semi-quaver triplet.

[izMadman]

Hey, when you're dealing with those speedy legato triplets, my tip is to take it slow at first and then ramp up the tempo gradually. Get cozy with your metronome and really hone in on nailing those notes with precision and control.

[Sesquitone]

Any suggestions on playing this 16th note triplet at 150 BPM? From 26 or 6 to 4.

If you really want to articulate each note, here are some ideas shown on ETSP Charts (as usual).

The first chart shows articulating along the fourth harmonic using what is known in some parts of the former British Empire as "see-ya-later, pal" triple-tonguing. [Toodeloo, dude.]

The second chart shows a good example of BAHLS articulation: Between-Adjacent-Harmonics Lip Slurs.

The third chart shows how easy it is to do with the Bb/G minor-third attachment (starting the B-natural in two different ways)--comparing the same phrase an octave higher. Note the similar nominal positions one octave apart.

And, finally, another possibility using Bb/G.

And, before anyone suggests that this would be partially converting the slide trombone into a "valve trombone", let me point out that the G-attachment harmonics are just additional available harmonics, mimicking, an octave (or two) lower, the extremely useful (slide-alone) fifth and seventh harmonics (and the ninth harmonic shifted by one nominal position).


.

[Stefano]

Very helpful. The second chart works, though whether it works for ME at 150 bpm remains to be seen. But if I want to articulate like the trumpets (on a straight horn), this is the way.

[harrisonreed]

It's definitely a triplet, like the OP has in his arrangement, in the official chart and on the studio recording.

[Doug Elliott]

Yeah... for trumpet and tenor

Pankow clearly stays in 2nd.

[OneTon]

I’ve been playing a similar lick in Elenor Rigby as per chart b. That also lends itself well to those times when a conductor, in the heat of performance, counts it off fast and/or the rhythm section starts rushing: AKA Tempo de Torn Tuckus.

[harrisonreed]

Yeah... for trumpet and tenor

Pankow clearly stays in 2nd.

In practice. I was just saying it's in the score. It's not hard to play either way.

[tbdana]

So it seems to me you have three choices:

1. Play the triplet as written in your odd arrangement
2. Play two grace notes like Walt Parazader and Lee Loughnane do on the recording and the posted videos
3. Play the B and the E like Jimmy Pankow does in the recoding and the posted videos.

[baileyman]

I think it's usually a gliss A to E, and that's how I've always played it, but...

However in this super early 1970 video, it's obviously just A to E in 2nd.

...

At 1:25 in this one Pankow seems to do the gliss. FWIW playing this one years ago the interpretation that made sense to me was a fall off of the A then the E. Arrangers who don't play the horn write all kinds of things that become comic exaggerations, like giant scoops when a half position might work great. Listeners' ears can fill in the blanks.