leadpipes in conn basses

[hyperbolica]

I'm curious about what leadpipe and mouthpiece combinations people are using in Conn basses, particularly 7x and 1xx series basses.

I'm having my 83h converted to screw-in pipes, because I think the horn could be improved with another pipe. It plays well as is, and particularly the upper range is very playable. The lower range is good, but I think it could improve. I don't want to use the word "stuffy", but I wouldn't mind loosening up the response a little. The trigger range doesn't really open up and rattle the rafters. Currently using a DE XB 112K8, which has worked well for me in other horns.

I don't know what the stock pipe is in the 83h, but I'd guess it's something like the Conn TM31925, which may be a Conn B without the thread. The Conn B, C and D threaded pipes sold through Hickeys are very reasonably priced. https://www.hickeys.com/search.php?q=conn+leadpipe But I'd like to hear about some good aftermarket or even Shires/Edwards pipes that might work.

Just from looking at the Brass Ark site, the NY50 and the Burt Herrick 62 sound interesting. MK Drawing seems to make some pipes as well. https://www.mkdrawing.com/product/mk-tr ... ombones-8/

[blast]

If you want more open, an original Conn 70H pipe is great...if you can find one. The Callet pipe is amazing, if a little bright and even harder to come by...I'd pay $200 for one if it came up. I use a 70H pipe and a King pipe for commercial sounds but mostly a Minick pipe in the orchestra. Don't think that copies are like the originals...the're NOT. Some are good, many not.

[Wilco]

No. 10 shank would help opening up as well…

[KWL]

Are you going with a bi-thread for the collar? That opens up the possibility of trying more pipes.

[blast]

Are you going with a bi-thread for the collar? That opens up the possibility of trying more pipes.

Use press fit and there is no limit.

[MStarke]

The Conn standard leadpipes are good to try. I also have one or two of the Kanstul leadpipes which were nice. And I can generally recommend the MK Drawing GR leadpipe.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Don’t worry about the threading……a collar can always be fitted to a leadpipe. Find the leadpipe that works and then worry about the threading.

I have found my early 1960’s 72H to be very picky about leadpipes. My BrassArk seamed NY50 leadpipe works on almost every bass trombone for me, but does NOT work for me on the 72H. My Greenhoe (Conn style) leadpipes work rather well. So does my Edwards #2. However, the best leadpipe for my 72H is a BrassLab 1985 series pipe (at a gig now, so I don’t remember the specific pipe #). Unfortunately, there is a lot of mystery in those BrassLab pipes. Nobody seems to know what each pipe is based upon. I don’t think Chuck McAlexander (he made the pipes) even remembers.

[blast]

Don’t worry about the threading……a collar can always be fitted to a leadpipe. Find the leadpipe that works and then worry about the threading.

I have found my early 1960’s 72H to be very picky about leadpipes. My BrassArk seamed NY50 leadpipe works on almost every bass trombone for me, but does NOT work for me on the 72H. My Greenhoe (Conn style) leadpipes work rather well. So does my Edwards #2. However, the best leadpipe for my 72H is a BrassLab 1985 series pipe (at a gig now, so I don’t remember the specific pipe #). Unfortunately, there is a lot of mystery in those BrassLab pipes. Nobody seems to know what each pipe is based upon. I don’t think Chuck McAlexander (he made the pipes) even remembers.

There used to be a chart of the Brasslab pipes that Chuck put online. Bear in mind that every brasslab pipe was made by hand in a pretty free way. I kinda wish makers didn't claim heritage on pipes as it creates confusion.

[trombonedemon]

Shires B3 and Edwards Sterling B3. Lead pipe. The venturi is really early in the Edwards and also longer than normal. I think there was a legitimate reason for the extra length.

[hyperbolica]

@KWL, yes I'm putting the bi-thread adapter on. The real hurdle is getting the old pipe out, not the adapter. I'm not too concerned about legacy, just about what the pipes will do in a horn people don't know very well. I'm comparing the 83 to 72 or 73 because it looks mostly like the 73 minus the red bell.

The material seems important. I want a material that brightens the sound without going too far. It seems (from reading reviews) that nickel silver is too much. Maybe yellow brass or a bronze would brighten a little without going too far.

I've got a few pipes to start with, but this is going to come down to trial and error. I'll stack the odds in my favor as much as possible by getting input from people like you all with experience.

I'm not sure where to look for the hard to find pipes. If you have sources, that would also be useful info.

Thx.

[trombonedemon]

I've sourced from Reverb and Accessories section. Haven't tried any other sources. But it woke the horn up dramatically.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Don’t worry about the threading……a collar can always be fitted to a leadpipe. Find the leadpipe that works and then worry about the threading.

I have found my early 1960’s 72H to be very picky about leadpipes. My BrassArk seamed NY50 leadpipe works on almost every bass trombone for me, but does NOT work for me on the 72H. My Greenhoe (Conn style) leadpipes work rather well. So does my Edwards #2. However, the best leadpipe for my 72H is a BrassLab 1985 series pipe (at a gig now, so I don’t remember the specific pipe #). Unfortunately, there is a lot of mystery in those BrassLab pipes. Nobody seems to know what each pipe is based upon. I don’t think Chuck McAlexander (he made the pipes) even remembers.

There used to be a chart of the Brasslab pipes that Chuck put online. Bear in mind that every brasslab pipe was made by hand in a pretty free way. I kinda wish makers didn't claim heritage on pipes as it creates confusion.

Back home now. The pipe I use with my Conn 72H is a BrassLab B-85-49. Again, the "85" refers to the year that Chuck created a series of pipes. I have seen the chart that Blast speaks of and I don't think it helped with identifying the heritage of the "49" pipe. I don't know how many of this particular pipe are out there, but this one really works well for me!

[GabrielRice]

When I bought some leadpipes from Chuck in the late 80s he refused to tell me anything about them and just said to try them all and see what I liked. Some had people's names on them - I played a Don Harwood pipe for a little while - but mostly they just had numbers. I still have two of them, one marked B85-18 std and the other 85-XVIII-5. I think they are the same basic design, but the std is about 1/4" longer and accepts Morse taper mouthpieces about an inch. The other one swallows more of the mouthpiece - maybe designed for old style longer Schilkes, which is probably what I was playing when I picked it out.

[Lastbone]

I'm currently using a Minnick Legit pipe (I think from Brass Ark or Kanstul) on my 73H. I've also had good luck with standard Bach 50 pipes. The 50 pipes gave it a very stable foundation, and the Minnick gives it extremely fast response and a malleable sound. The stock Conn pipe NEVER worked well... couldn't center the articulations.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I'm currently using a Minnick Legit pipe (I think from Brass Ark or Kanstul) on my 73H. I've also had good luck with standard Bach 50 pipes. The 50 pipes gave it a very stable foundation, and the Minnick gives it extremely fast response and a malleable sound. The stock Conn pipe NEVER worked well... couldn't center the articulations.

I was the same way with the stock leadpipe in my 72H, just chipping notes and the tone was too narrow. I actually took it to Baltimore Brass to see if it would sell. Then I spoke to someone who told me how they put other leadpipes in their 72H and it worked very well. I got the horn back from Baltimore Brass and pulled the leadpipe. That's when I started to hear the horn's full potential. Even the "less than desirable" leadpipes worked far better than the stock leadpipe for me.

[JanWillemOverweg]

Most of the time I play a Lätzsch lead pipe in my 72h. I like the more direct sound I get out of it, compared to the original lead pipe. The original lead pipe has a darker, warmer sound, but does not articulate as well. For me the combination of a Bach 1 1/4g and the more direct Lätzsch lead pipe works quite well. Or the original lead pipe with a Bach 1 1/2g.
Just get a bunch of lead pipes from your tech, make an excel sheet and try them out one by one