Conn 3 equivalent?

[aWest]

I lost my Conn 3 mouthpiece. Does anyone have a suggestion for a modern equivalent?
Thanks!

[BGuttman]

Bach 7C or Faxx 7C

[cb56]

Maybe Yamaha 48
Wider flatter rim than the 7c
Also medium cup vs shallow on the 7c
Wider throat than the 7c.

[Posaunus]

Nominal (they vary a bit) Conn 3 specifications for reference:
Cup I.D.: 25.35mm (0.998"); Throat: 6.35mm (0.250"). Rather V-shaped Cup. Wide, sharp Rim.

Pick your own "modern" near-equivalent. Perhaps a Bach 6½AM? Or Yamaha 48? Or Wick 6BS?

[Kevbach33]

A Warburton 10D (25.40mm/1.00" cup I.D.) or 11D (25.15mm/.99", a little smaller) top would roughly be in the ballpark, I think. Fairly wide and round rim with a secure bite that's not too sharp. These have a more V-shaped cup compared to a Bach 6½AM et al and a .250" throat. Choose the appropriate back bore (there are 12 of them) to suit your horn and playing needs.

The combo in my signature (I use a 9D, a little larger at 25.65mm/1.01") lights my Conn 6H up beautifully.

[frankgalante]

A Warburton 10D (25.40mm/1.00" cup I.D.) or 11D (25.15mm/.99", a little smaller) top would roughly be in the ballpark, I think. Fairly wide and round rim with a secure bite that's not too sharp. These have a more V-shaped cup compared to a Bach 6½AM et al and a .250" throat. Choose the appropriate back bore (there are 12 of them) to suit your horn and playing needs.

The combo in my signature (I use a 9D, a little larger at 25.65mm/1.01") lights my Conn 6H up beautifully.

Does the M Cup works with .500 bores?, i was wondering to buy a 11M or 10M but i don't know which backbore put on it.
I tried the S Cups and there way to shallow, should i get the M or D Cup for lead playing on jazz band?
Does the 9 Cup (Bach 5) is too large for small bore?

[Kevbach33]

Somewhat like Doug Elliott's system, but in a two-piece design, Warburton mouthpieces allow you to fit the rim to your face first. The 9 is not too big (for me), and I came to the Warburton from a Bach 5. Also remember that the Conn 6H is a .500" bore trombone.

You can even get a 4-sized rim (the 7 series is 1.03") with all the cup options. For modular pieces, only Doug Elliott allows you to go wider.

Fit to your face first! The correct size for you may be bigger than you think.

The M cup would be better for lead, for perching your sound on top of the section. I would agree that the S cup would be too shallow, designed more for alto trombone. Then again, I'm not a lead player, so the D cup suits me better for playing 2nd and 3rd (I'm primarily a bass bone and tuba player).

For back bore, I'd start with either the 3 or 4 (or the star versions of either) and tinker around from there (I'd imagine Warburton recommends the same). One will suit your playing style. The star back bores have the cylindrical section removed, making them more open than their standard equivalent. (They work great for the D cups IMO.) No. 1 is the smallest and 6 star the biggest.

[frankgalante]

Somewhat like Doug Elliott's system, but in a two-piece design, Warburton mouthpieces allow you to fit the rim to your face first. The 9 is not too big (for me), and I came to the Warburton from a Bach 5. Also remember that the Conn 6H is a .500" bore trombone.

You can even get a 4-sized rim (the 7 series is 1.03") with all the cup options. For modular pieces, only Doug Elliott allows you to go wider.

Fit to your face first! The correct size for you may be bigger than you think.

The M cup would be better for lead, for perching your sound on top of the section. I would agree that the S cup would be too shallow, designed more for alto trombone. Then again, I'm not a lead player, so the D cup suits me better for playing 2nd and 3rd (I'm primarily a bass bone and tuba player).

For back bore, I'd start with either the 3 or 4 (or the star versions of either) and tinker around from there (I'd imagine Warburton recommends the same). One will suit your playing style. The star back bores have the cylindrical section removed, making them more open than their standard equivalent. (They work great for the D cups IMO.) No. 1 is the smallest and 6 star the biggest.

Maybe the 10M with a T3 could work? Or its unbalanced?
Mi biggest concern is that not to get oversized equimpent for lead playing, the 5G and 6 1/2AL i tried sounded very symphonical.

The 10M T3 would be like a Shallow 6 1/2AL?
What i felt when blowing into the 12S T3 was that pedals and low range were much easier than a 7C but i had to be shifting embouchure consistenly to play high range and sound was splitting between notes, also high range was not much easier than with a 7C.
I got the S cup in the first place becasue i need better support on high range for lead, but i'm planning to exachange it for a M Cup
Is the M Cup similar to a Bach C?
Doug Elliot told me some time ago that i should get a LT SERIES N101 C+ D2 but i assume thats a very large rim

Thank you for replying you re a lot of help

[Doug Elliott]

Most "conventional wisdom" about mouthpieces is wrong. A smaller inside diameter does not help high range.
Your complaint is about shifting. A smaller mouthpiece just makes that worse, and you are finding that out but still not believing it.

[OneTon]

If you liked the Conn 3, call up the Stork folks. Their T1, T2, and T3 are v shaped. The next size bigger than a Conn 3 would incorporate Doug Elliott’s advice.

[Posaunus]

A TromboneChat member has listed a Conn 3 mouthpiece for free - just pay shipping!

viewtopic.php?p=235058#p235058

[aWest]

This is only my 2nd post on ANY chat, so I hope I'm responding to all when I say thanks so much. I obviously came to the right place for advice!

With so few horn stores, and such limited inventory when you DO find one, how does one go about trying out a mouthpiece these days? Do I have to wait until I can attend an ITF?

[MStarke]

If you have lost your Conn 3 and want to replace it, why not just get another one instead of looking at something as close as possible?

I see them for sale every now and then and also would have one to give away.

[hyperbolica]

Doug Elliot told me some time ago that i should get a LT SERIES N101 C+ D2 but i assume thats a very large rim

I use a 104 rim on even my small bore horns, and I've got a decent high range ( ), at least I'm not limited by the mouthpiece. The thing that makes the sound is the cup, not the rim. A C+ cup is relatively small. I use 104C2 on 500 bore and smaller. The rim should fit your face, the cup fits the sound and the shank fits the horn. Don't fight it. Most mouthpieces are built assuming that the rim should be proportional to the cup, and that turns out to be wrong. I used to play on 5G, and cracked a lot of notes and had problems switching mouthpieces. Once I started using the stuff Doug recommended for me, I crack fewer notes and I can switch between tenor and bass in the middle of a tune.

[Doug Elliott]

Most of time when someone wants "as close as possible" to what they're already using, they somehow expect a different version of the same thing to give better results.

... The same problems will still be there.

I try to recommend something that will make playing better and easier.

Like the Farmers Insurance ad:
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."

[Redthunder]

Most of time when someone wants "as close as possible" to what they're already using, they somehow expect a different version of the same thing to give better results.

... The same problems will still be there.

I try to recommend something that will make playing better and easier.

Like the Farmers Insurance ad:
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."

"Surely THIS 11C will be perfect this time!!!!!!!!"

[frankgalante]

Somewhat like Doug Elliott's system, but in a two-piece design, Warburton mouthpieces allow you to fit the rim to your face first. The 9 is not too big (for me), and I came to the Warburton from a Bach 5. Also remember that the Conn 6H is a .500" bore trombone.

You can even get a 4-sized rim (the 7 series is 1.03") with all the cup options. For modular pieces, only Doug Elliott allows you to go wider.

Fit to your face first! The correct size for you may be bigger than you think.

The M cup would be better for lead, for perching your sound on top of the section. I would agree that the S cup would be too shallow, designed more for alto trombone. Then again, I'm not a lead player, so the D cup suits me better for playing 2nd and 3rd (I'm primarily a bass bone and tuba player).

For back bore, I'd start with either the 3 or 4 (or the star versions of either) and tinker around from there (I'd imagine Warburton recommends the same). One will suit your playing style. The star back bores have the cylindrical section removed, making them more open than their standard equivalent. (They work great for the D cups IMO.) No. 1 is the smallest and 6 star the biggest.

Is the 9M bigger than a Bach 5?

On the webpage it says that 9M is 25.65mm and a Bach 5 is 25.50mm, BUT on the comparison chart the 8 cup is the equivalent to a bach 5G

Since you played both i would be very thankful if you can clarify this would be great help, im in between 10M or a 9M

[Kevbach33]

Is the 9M bigger than a Bach 5?

On the webpage it says that 9M is 25.65mm and a Bach 5 is 25.50mm, BUT on the comparison chart the 8 cup is the equivalent to a bach 5G

Since you played both i would be very thankful if you can clarify this would be great help, im in between 10M or a 9M

No, they're very close. The rims feel different on the face though, and the M cup is a bit shallower but more V-shaped.

Take Bach's specs and the Warburton comparison chart with a grain of salt, so to speak: they're not the most accurate out there.

http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/s ... chart.html

This chart shows how some other mouthpieces compare to Doug's sizes in his LT series. The M cup would be roughly Doug's C cup, perhaps C+; the D cup would roughly be his E cup; the 9 would equate to his 101 rim like a Bach 5.

But don't get hung up on specs; you simply have to try them out in all registers; the right size rim will not hinder your extremes of range.

[CaptEquinox]

I think the conversation above demonstrates pretty well that "frame of reference" is a huge issue when it comes to mouthpieces, and you can pretty much cut and paste that idea onto most other mouthpiece discussions in forums like this. It makes sense: you know the experience of what you've played on. The mostly "decent playing" devil you know . . .

Not getting "hung up on specs" is good advice, but at least specs (maybe?) let you compare mouthpieces without actually trying them. Mouthpiece makers go to varying lengths to try to solve the comparison problem beyond providing measurements (or a chart*), but then they are left with simple descriptions and sometimes imprecise nomenclature. For example, someone calls this particular rim "bigger." Oh, you mean a bigger inner diameter? You aren't talking about the width of the rim, to say nothing of its curves or vertical shape?

It'd be great to "Warby-Parkerize" the mouthpiece selling situation. Maybe send out a case of entirely lexan mouthpieces for a trial period. I'm not holding my breath; More people wear glasses.

Finally, I have a Conn 3 and a 7c rolling around here, and you'd sincerely have to be about four or five old-fashioneds in to mistake one for the other.

[aWest]

“Finally, I have a Conn 3 and a 7c rolling around here, and you'd sincerely have to be about four or five old-fashioneds in to mistake one for the other.”

Good one!

[harrisonreed]

Is the 9M bigger than a Bach 5?

On the webpage it says that 9M is 25.65mm and a Bach 5 is 25.50mm, BUT on the comparison chart the 8 cup is the equivalent to a bach 5G

Since you played both i would be very thankful if you can clarify this would be great help, im in between 10M or a 9M

I know some are very sensitive to rim diameters, but when the difference is that small you're literally splitting hairs. Especially if, and this is just an example, you're worried about 25.5 vs 25.65, when in fact you might actually need a 26.15mm.

In the very wise words of Karl Pilkington "He left his wife for her twin sister. I say: if you're going to have a change, have a change."

That said, you were just looking at much smaller Warburton mouthpieces the other day, and you said Doug already recommended the 1.01" rim in a lesson. Choose the Warburton with the 25.65mm rim, which is 1.01". The issues with the comparison chart might come down to rim shapes. You can measure a rim in the same spot, but if it is rounded it might feel bigger.

[Doug Elliott]

I know someone whose wife died and he really did marry her twin sister.

[imsevimse]

"I lost my Conn 3 mouthpiece. Does anyone have a suggestion for a modern equivalent?
Thanks!"

I can think of a couple of mouthpieces that can replace a Conn 3. Try Bach 6 3/4C, Bach 11C and the Yamaha Nils Landgrem Signature mouthpiece. They are not the same as a Conn 3 but to me they all play close. I have a Conn 3 and it's a very good m-piece. I mainly use the 11C for lead-part and alternately use the Yamaha for broader sound. To me the Conn is in between these two.

/Tom