Stopping throat noise on lip slurs

[chouston3]

I have been working on some lip slurs and I keep hearing small vocalizations from my throat. What are some tips to stop those sounds?

[baileyman]

Ooo, glottal stops?

I would guess you're altering your rather large mouth cavity to encourage the slurs to happen by closing your throat a bit. I suppose that could work.

Slurs work like magic using the tongue instead. In this technique the mouth volume is limited by a high rear of tongue, and then the forward tongue adjusts volume to prompt partial change. It's just like whistling.

[Kbiggs]

This is just a guess, based on your description. We—or rather, a good teacher—would really need to watch you play to accurately identify the problem. But here are a few thoughts…

It sounds like you’ve developed the habit of using glottal stops to make slurs happen, like baileyman noted. The glottis is the area in the back part of the throat just below the tonsils down to where it’s anchored just above the larynx. A glottal stop is found in some avant garde music, but it’s rare. And it’s not helpful in 99.314579% of playing.

Yes, work on using the forward portion of the tongue to help with slurs. And use a syllable that helps distinguish between the forward part of the tongue from the back portion. See Doug Elliott’s post here: viewtopic.php?p=226350#p226350

It might also be helpful to practice using no tongue to start a note. Set the mouthpiece on the lip and have embouchure formed (Set, according to Doug Elliott), breathe in through the open corners of the mouth (Breathe), the blow air through the embouchure (Play), but without using the tongue to start the note. When you notice a glottal stop, stop playing and retrace your steps, and try again. Again, a good teacher will be helpful.

Speaking from personal experience, and as a sometime teacher, you may also have allowed the glottis to create some resistance to the airstream in lieu of a balanced and well-formed embouchure. The tongue and lips form the body’s points of resistance in the airstream, but not the throat.

Regardless of what type of embouchure (upstream, downstream, etc.), you still need to have firm corners (the muscles underneath the corners and surrounding them), along with a lower lip that lies flat as a result of the muscular tension in the corners. I will sometimes use this picture to illustrate what I mean:

Farkas Brass Player’s Face.pdf

[Burgerbob]

I find it can help to sing something- your body is doing largely the same actions for both (minus the vocal cords, of course).

[chouston3]

I am restarting after an extended time off. It would make sense if I am using multiple embouchures (throat and lips) to play. I have noticed that when I really firm up the corners I can get rid of the throat noise. But I feel like I am tensing so much that I can't sustain it.

My next question is, should I do lip slurs anyway to try to get stronger even if I have throat noise on some of them?

[Kbiggs]

Yes, continue playing lip slurs as best you can. Eventually, you'll stop the the glottal stop (ha ha).

Again, I strongly suggest you see a teacher about this, someone who can watch you play to determine whether that's really what's happening in your playing. Doug Elliott and Dave Wilken here on TC are great teachers who have dealt with these and other kinds of embouchure and related problems.

So, assuming that it is a glottal stop thing: When you notice you're activating the throat while playing, stop, put the horn down (on your knee, on a your trombone stand), take a deep breath, refocus. Then pick the horn back up, Set, Breathe, Play. It's important get back on the horse.

Make a commitment to do this for 5-10 minutes each day as a focused part of your regular practice routine. for the rest of your daily practice, do your bets to put it aside (compartmentalize it), and go about your regular practice. Eventually, you'll replace the glottal stop with a more helpful habit--using the tongue and the embouchure for slurs and other aspects of playing.

[Wilktone]

As Kenneth has already noted, a teacher needs to watch you play in order to give you specifically targeted advice. That said, I wonder if the vocal sounds are a symptom of something else not working correctly. When we play with a technique flaw sometimes we try to compensate through other means. This never works as well as identifying the issue and correcting it. Addressing symptoms might cover up the issue, but it probably won't go away on its own.

If you can post video of you playing and demonstrating this happening we might be able to make a more educated guess.

Dave

[Crazy4Tbone86]

As a teacher, I have found throat tension and accidental engagement of vocal cords, glottis, etc…. challenging problems to correct and discuss with students for two reasons:

1. It is difficult for the student to observe and correct because it is hidden inside the body (that one is obvious).

2. Any intentional movement or engagement of muscles will probably create more tension and more problems.

Allow me to explain the second one. If a teacher tells a student to “open your throat” the intent is to have them relax their throat. Sadly, I have heard so many teachers say this to their brass and woodwind students. However, the student will start doing things to engage more muscles in the throat and will most likely create even more tension.

Thus, I ask my students to do something that creates the most relaxation. I use yawning. The yawn is our body’s way of completely relaxing for maximum oxygen intake. It is also the most relaxed a person’s throat can be. Although people cannot completely create a yawn intentionally (because it really is an involuntary response), most people can achieve a very relaxed throat by doing an “intentional yawn.”

I ask my students to yawn a few times to get the sensation of how their throat feels. From there, we try to transition to closing the mouth while exhaling, adding the mouthpiece/horn and eventually we apply it to playing. It takes time and repetition, but I have been able to solve many students’ problems with this technique……especially the problem of vocal cords being engaged while playing.

I also like the techniques that Doug Elliott mentioned in a previous thread (referenced by Kbiggs). Again, the exercises are not telling the player to do a specific muscle movement, which would likely create more tension. The exercises direct the student to do vowel and consonant sounds that naturally create a more relaxed approach for the tongue and throat.