Best bass trombone mouthpiece?

[SamPlaysBass]

I am a bass trombone player that is still fairly new. I was wondering what the best mouthpiece is for high to mid range playing

[BGuttman]

As a bass trombone player you should find one mouthpiece that covers all your range and stick with it. There is no such thing as a "high range mouthpiece" or a "low range mouthpiece". Nobody's going to wait while you swap mouthpieces because of a note in the part.

There are some players who do well on smaller mouthpieces. Ray Premru played on a Bach 2G size. Most of the George Roberts mouthpieces are around 1½ G size.

Some players do well on larger mouthpieces. The Doug Yeo model is a little smaller than a Bach 1G but deeper.

As a still fairly new player I'd start with a good 1½ G size and go from there.

[Doug Elliott]

Providing virtually no information and expecting a valid answer?

[ZacharyThornton]

Providing virtually no information and expecting a valid answer?

Isn’t that the internet in a nut shell?

[Posaunus]

Sort of like asking who's the best girl in the Junior class, isn't it?

[tkelley216]

If you are a newer bass trombonist, I wouldn't find a mouthpiece specifically for mid-high range, I'd just find something around a 1 1/4G size and practice. Sound comes first, then range.

I recommend a schilke 59, which is super common and similar to a Bach 1 1/4G in size but works a little better with modern bass trombones in my opinion. That's what I started on and still use to this day.

[hyperbolica]

... Sound comes first, then range....

You know, I don't think I've ever heard it said that way, but that's exactly right. Make sure you sound good first, then work on range.

But to answer the question, a 1 1/2G is a good general purpose bass mouthpiece.

[Bach5G]

Sort of like asking who's the best girl in the Junior class, isn't it?

Alice

[Posaunus]

Sort of like asking who's the best girl in the Junior class, isn't it?

Alice

Nah, it was Kathy!

[JeffBone44]

There's a mouthpiece brand called Practice which is very helpful.

All kidding aside, as a beginning bass trombonist, stick with a 1 1/2G for now and you'll be good for a while.

[WGWTR180]

Oh boy.

[BrianJohnston]

If you're a beginner, you don't have much business looking for the holy grail of mouthpieces, just use something that works good enough until you're better.

[WGWTR180]

There's a mouthpiece brand called Practice which is very helpful.

All kidding aside, as a beginning bass trombonist, stick with a 1 1/2G for now and you'll be good for a while.

I just looked at is profile. All very big mouthpieces. And also as a beginner for over 30 years on the bass trombone a 1 and 1/2G works wonders for us long haulers. LOL

[WGWTR180]

for some clarity folks here's what he plays:
Denis Wick Classic 1AL
Denis Wick Heavytop 0AL
Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica

[JeffBone44]

for some clarity folks here's what he plays:
Denis Wick Classic 1AL
Denis Wick Heavytop 0AL
Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica

Okay then!

[sacfxdx]

I am a bass trombone player that is still fairly new. I was wondering what the best mouthpiece is for high to mid range playing

I wonder why he's not concerned about his low range since he is playing bass.

[WGWTR180]

I am a bass trombone player that is still fairly new. I was wondering what the best mouthpiece is for high to mid range playing

I wonder why he's not concerned about his low range since he is playing bass.

Well here's my guess. He says he's new to bass trombone. He's probably "honking out low notes" to his satisfaction but cannot play at all OR for very long in the upper register. That all takes time to do consistently. Also guessing he is primarily a tenor player and he's learning that bass is a different animal. But that's only a guess.

[Posaunus]

for some clarity folks here's what he plays:
Denis Wick Classic 1AL
Denis Wick Heavytop 0AL
Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica

SamPlaysBass writes that he is "still fairly new" on bass - but has 3 very large and deep mouthpieces for his Bach 50AF3.

If he wants to improve the ease of high- and mid-range playing, he should consider a shallower piece, and perhaps a smaller cup diameter (depending on his face). Perhaps something in the 1½G size range as Bill suggests. If he's looking for a brand or model number, I'll leave that to others to recommend. As a doubler, I've found what works for me - but it might not for him.

[Bach5G]

New to bass trombone but starts with the extremes of big and dark.

[marccromme]

Sarcasm wount help anybody. ....

[Kevbach33]

for some clarity folks here's what he plays:
Denis Wick Classic 1AL
Denis Wick Heavytop 0AL
Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica

A Wick 1AL is not a huge mouthpiece by any means, about like a 1½G or Schilke 58 but with a very different, "love-or-hate" rim. It's also somewhat of a lightweight in the classic blank.

I'd suggest to the OP to stick that 1AL in his Bach and practice, practice, practice. And perhaps get a lesson or two with a respectable teacher.

[WGWTR180]

Sarcasm wount help anybody. ....

Who is sarcastic?

[WGWTR180]

for some clarity folks here's what he plays:
Denis Wick Classic 1AL
Denis Wick Heavytop 0AL
Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica

A Wick 1AL is not a huge mouthpiece by any means, about like a 1½G or Schilke 58 but with a very different, "love-or-hate" rim. It's also somewhat of a lightweight in the classic blank.

I'd suggest to the OP to stick that 1AL in his Bach and practice, practice, practice. And perhaps get a lesson or two with a respectable teacher.

Good point. I forgot the Wick numbering system.

[imsevimse]

Sarcasm wount help anybody. ....

This is my serious advice if you are a doubler like me, and have about the same background
Some good all around mouthpieces I've played and liked that work very well in both low and high register: Bach 1 1/2G and 1 1/4G, Hammond 20BL, Laskey 85MD and 90D.

/Tom

[WilliamLang]

Just pointing out that this is another poster who jumps right in with a deep question and no community interaction whatsoever. Feels like there's 2-3 of these a week. Most real people at least do a little intro, a little interaction, you know, a little real writing that sounds like it comes from a real person.

Could be it's an AI training bot, or, possibly, one specific person who likes to generate content and webpages for their own benefit, and has a very specific writing/thought pattern. Or it could be a real person, but it just feels more and more unlikely to me.

[ghmerrill]

Could be it's an AI training bot, or, possibly, one specific person who likes to generate content and webpages for their own benefit, and has a very specific writing/thought pattern.

Could be, and your reasoning isn't bad, but ... SO many of teens-twenties(- thirties?) people have simply adopted as a "best practice", or a first and last resort, or as their versions of "common sense" ... simply throwing a query at a social media group (or two or ...) and then picking and trusting the answers they like the most from the ones that bounce back. You must realize that this is SO much simpler and easier than actually searching for what appears to be a good sample of representative information and then taking the time to evaluate that information in a rational way -- learning what are the best and most reasonable criteria along the way (and why these are).

But yeah it could be an attempt to train (or more likely test) an AI -- but not a serious professional one. A student exercise or assignment perhaps. Or perhaps it's part of a sociological experiment/assignment/paper on social group behavior (so try to look our best, eh?). Still, I don't think so. I think it's an illustration of a social phenomenon.

[JohnL]

Just pointing out that this is another poster who jumps right in with a deep question and no community interaction whatsoever. Feels like there's 2-3 of these a week. Most real people at least do a little intro, a little interaction, you know, a little real writing that sounds like it comes from a real person.

Could be it's an AI training bot, or, possibly, one specific person who likes to generate content and webpages for their own benefit, and has a very specific writing/thought pattern. Or it could be a real person, but it just feels more and more unlikely to me.

I think the best approach in this sort of situation is to give the poster the benefit of the doubt and try to help them. Of course, the first step in trying to help them is to establish what sort of gear they're using now and why they're thinking about changing it. If they can't/won't/don't provide that information, then offering advice is kind of pointless, be they human or AI.

[ghmerrill]

Perhaps Trombonechat could appoint a Trombonebot staff member to appropriately interact with the bot and to create Trombonechat bots as posters to respond to outside bots. Of course, the best way to approach this is to create a SuperTrombonebot member that is itself a bot, and a Virtual forum where that bot could interact with other bots and (assumed) humans.

I'm pretty sure it would be possible to get a pretty decent grant to develop and test such a bot, and to continuing studies on it and with it. Grants appear to be available in this area from the The National Science Foundation, the Humanities Research Centers on Artificial Intelligence, GoodAI Grants, and other sources. (I'm only partly kidding about this. And I DON'T want that job. But I do want credit for the idea when someone actually does it. )

[Posaunus]

I think the best approach in this sort of situation is to give the poster the benefit of the doubt and try to help them. Of course, the first step in trying to help them is to establish what sort of gear they're using now and why they're thinking about changing it. If they can't/won't/don't provide that information, then offering advice is kind of pointless, be they human or AI.

Boy, some TromboneChatters are suspicious! And we are sure willing to deviate onto tangents.

In this case, I'd certainly give SamPlaysBass the benefit of the doubt. He's listed all his trombones including his Bach 50AF3 bass trombone, and the 3 bass trombone mouthpieces that he uses, and he's provided his name and e-dress. He may not have given us much information, but apparently bass trombone is fairly new to him, and he's looking for better high- and mid-range. (Not too surprising to me that he's apparently O.K. with his low range. His mouthpieces should provide that.)

I agree with Gary that he has just thrown his question out there and somehow expects a helpful response, and that this sort of query may be common among our "younger" colleagues, making it quite difficult for us to assist.

Other information that would be helpful if he wants advice:

• What other mouthpieces (if any) has he tried?

• How long has he played trombone?

• How long has he played bass trombone?

• Does he have a trombone teacher?

• If so, is he teacher knowledgeable about bass trombone?

• Is he willing to experiment with mouthpieces?

• What are his budget constraints?

If we had some of those answers, we might be able to help a bit.
How about it, Sam?

[harrisonreed]

The best mouthpiece for bass is obviously the "Reed B1" in lightweight blank, made by James New.

[MrHCinDE]

Perhaps Trombonechat could appoint a Trombonebot staff member to appropriately interact with the bot and to create Trombonechat bots as posters to respond to outside bots.

Should be easy enough to train:

1) Any questions about mouthpiece or embouchure? The Trombonechat equivalent of Godwin’s law applies, i.e. the longer the conversation goes on, the likelier it is that someone will say talk to or have a lesson with Doug Elliott.

2) Default reply to any classified FS horn is: Would you trade your highly desirable boutique horn for my great playing (but not great enough for me) small bore horn xyz horn?

3) Posts such as I am considering studying the trombone at college and building a career as a trombonist: Replies at a ratio of about 4:1 between “Do you like to have a roof over your head and something to eat?” and “Go for it, worked for me!”

4) Which is the better horn/brand between x and y? Answer: Without having met you and heard you play, I can say with great certainty that what you need is an early model z, made to someone’s custom requirements on a Tuesday afternoon in the third week of March and by the hand of a specific craftsman who’s no longer at the company (or has possibly been dead for decades)

Nice try harissonreed, I like the marketing ploy in case a bot is monitoring this. I’ll add a number 5) to help you out:

5) I’m amazed by the design of Reed mouthpieces, they seem to be the best mouthpiece for any trombone player using any horn with any embouchure.

FWIW I tend to also give questions like the OP’s the benefit of the doubt. If they like Wick rims, probably better to spend some time on the 1AL unless they already know it isn’t a good fit for them. Something around the size of a 1 1/4G to 1 1/2G should be a solid starting point for many new bass players but I’m going to fall into my own trap here and suggest getting the opinion of their teacher or having a session with Doug Elliott.

[ghmerrill]

Perhaps Trombonechat could appoint a Trombonebot staff member to appropriately interact with the bot and to create Trombonechat bots as posters to respond to outside bots.

Should be easy enough to train: ...

Moving more off-topic now -- but think about what you need to know in order to answer questions like "What's the best mouthpiece?" ...

I feel compelled to point out that the approach you propose does not require or involve "training." It's an example of creating an AI based on "knowledge curation" that involves rule-based inferencing, heuristics (rules of thumb), and an "inference engine" that does "step by step reasoning". No training, no "machine learning," no machine self-building of artificial neural networks that it then uses to analyze and reach conclusions. It is very (human) labor intensive and requires constant updating. The reasoners also tend to be slow compared to more contemporary technology, and limited in what they know by the decisions of their human designers/implementers. This is older technology (started in the 70s?) and is still highly useful (I was using it to different degrees through 2009 in the biomedical domain) -- but it is not the methodology and technology used by typical bots on the web or by systems such as ChatGPT which relies on techniques of "generative AI" which include "large language models," "neural networks," "machine learning," etc. -- which do require training, and which I won't even attempt to describe here.

An interesting article on some of the differences (and dangers), should anyone care to venture in that direction, is

• "Getting from Generative AI to Trustworthy AI: What LLMs might learn from Cyc"
  https://arxiv.org/pdf/2308.04445.pdf

Though not exactly comic book level, most of it is readable by non-experts, and it's intended for a non-expert audience which may be concerned about the dangers of generative AI. It's also not entirely objective, but is still an excellent account of the major issues, and proposes an approach where the knowledge curation and generative AI technologies are combined in order to produce "trustworthy" AIs.