Large Bore to Small Bore Mouthpiece Adapter

[Layne]

I play on a Schilke 51c4 Gold Rim/Cup large bore, but I want to use it on a small bore straight trombone that I own for my schools jazz band. I'm pretty sure they make this mouthpiece as a small bore, however I would prefer to not spend another $160 if I don't need to. I looked up mouthpiece adapters for trombone but they are all small to large bore, does anyone know if large to small bore adapters exist, and if so where I could get one?

[BGuttman]

Only way to fit a large bore mouthpiece in a small bore horn is with a good sledge hammer

Just think about it. The mouthpiece shank is too large. Any adapter is going to add thickness to the shank. What good would that do?

[Layne]

Any old sledgehammer would do it or do I need a specific kind?

[Posaunus]

Even if such an adapter existed (thus violating the reality of geometry) the 51C4 mouthpiece (yes, a small-shank version exists) would not play the same in your small-bore trombone. it's probably time to start thinking about a new small-shank mouthpiece that's more appropriate for jazz tenor. You can find good ones (think used if necessary) for a lot less than $160!

[Kevbach33]

If you like that rim size, a Schilke 51B would be more appropriate for small tenor playing, depending on what part you'll play in jazz band.

A large to small adapter, if it existed, would add enough length to make the horn too flat.

[harrisonreed]

Any old sledgehammer would do it or do I need a specific kind?

[OneTon]

Any old sledgehammer would do it or do I need a specific kind?

2 pound. Hickory handle. Ensure that the face of the hammer head is smooth to 63 aa or better. Hit it like you mean it: No love taps.

[OneTon]

51b small shank mouthpieces are available And in stock at mouth express for $91.25. A slightly smaller mouthpiece is the Schilke 47. Also $91.25. Also in stock. It is 0.026 inch smaller in cup diameter and slightly smaller diameter throat. It was characterized as a valid choice for YSL-697Z by Al Kay.

[JohnL]

If you like that rim size, a Schilke 51B would be more appropriate for small tenor playing, depending on what part you'll play in jazz band.

The 51B is a different rim shape than the 51C4.

[Posaunus]

Any old sledgehammer would do it or do I need a specific kind?

2 pound. Hickory handle. Ensure that the face of the hammer head is smooth to 63 aa or better. Hit it like you mean it: No love taps.

I got my sledgehammer at Harbor Freight. Make sure you get the tenor model - the bass is too large!

[OneTon]

Too close for missiles . . . Switching to . . .

[Trav1s]

If you like that rim size, a Schilke 51B would be more appropriate for small tenor playing, depending on what part you'll play in jazz band.

The 51B is a different rim shape than the 51C4.

I've experiemented with multiple 51Bs on everything from .485" to .562" horns - never had luck with it on anything smaller than .522s/525s. Rim is also different than the 51C4...

Faxx 6.5AL might be a place to start...

I'd hate to think what a large to small bore adapter would do for pitch.

[Posaunus]

I'd be happy to send Layne a small-bore Schilke 51B. I'm done with it - never found it to be useful even for a medium-bore tenor, much less a small-bore jazz horn. It's nothing like a 51C4 (which is also too large for jazz).

[ghmerrill]

Even if such an adapter existed (thus violating the reality of geometry)...

"There are more things in heaven and Earth, ... Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

shankadapter.jpg

[Posaunus]

Even if such an adapter existed (thus violating the reality of geometry)...

"There are more things in heaven and Earth, ... Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
shankadapter.jpg

O.K. I guess that's a physically viable adapter. That effectively extends the slide about 2 inches. How does it sound on a jazz tenor trombone with a 51C4 mouthpiece? My philosophical dream has become a nightmare!

[ghmerrill]

O.K. I guess that's a physically viable adapter. That effectively extends the slide about 2 inches. How does it sound on a jazz tenor trombone with a 51C4 mouthpiece? My philosophical dream has become a nightmare!

I think if you put something like this on a tenor trombone it would play a bit flat, and it would be difficult or impossible to correct for that. I think that in general adapters are not the way to go.

This adapter is for a standard American shank tuba mouthpiece to what's often referred to as "small European" receiver (which is close to -- but not identical to -- a trombone "large shank"). It extends the leadpipe for only 1.25"(half of it goes fully into the original receiver). Matt Walters at Dillion Music used to make them. I strongly suspect this is the last one that was made. Denis Wick makes a couple of tuba mouthpieces with the old shank, and so people ending up with old tubas often try to use those. Sometimes they work. If they don't, people look for alternative approaches.

As to how it sounds ... It works. On a tuba (specifically my 1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb) the pitch was altered negligibly -- just as you'd expect to find with a slightly longer leadpipe. I played with it that way for some years, and then a couple of years ago decided to try to make that horn really useable by replacing the receiver. I'd already cut it down from A=435 to A=440, but it wasn't quite right.

So I finally pulled the old receiver off it and put on a standard US one I'd bought and had lying around for years. The horn is quite playable now using a Kelly 25 mouthpiece. It's only remaining problem is that 3rd valve combinations tend to be mildly to significantly sharp. So I made the 3rd valve slide into a simple hand-operated "kicker". Not the greatest tuba in the world (and never was), but it's a lot of fun to have and to play (on occasion). When I bought it ($250), it was black with tarnish and looked like someone had, at various times, taken a baseball bat, a BB gun, and an axe to it. Most of that is no longer visible and it shines -- with it's original 2 or 3 layer thickness silver plating.