From large shank to small shank

[Nobbi]

Conversion large shank MP to small shank MP!

I just play test the Laskey Alessi 60 Symph and the Laskey Alessi 55 Symph.
The 60 produces an amazing full sound on my King 5b ... totally impressed, super easy to play over the whole range.
To me, the 55 sounds more flat and I struggle in the pedal register.
Now comes my amateur engineer brain into play:
I would love to play it on my Shires and my Lawler horns ... both having small shank MP seats.
Probably two questions to Doug:
a) is it possible to change the Laskey to a small shank (Laskey doesn't produce small shank MPs)?
b) would it work soundwise / does it make sense?

Greetings, Nobbi

[Matt K]

You can definitely have a shank made. Whether or not someone has the bandwidth to do it is a different story. I have a small shank Elliott shank for one of my bass pieces, which I used in my small shank euphonium.

Generally speaking, results may not be what you expect but small shanks often have a lot of focus at the expense of some breadth of sound.

I'm not sure what the rim sizes are on the pieces you mentioned but it’s possible you do well on a certain rim size and may find a shallower cup with the same, presumably larger, rim to work well on smaller bones

[harrisonreed]

Those mouthpieces are not designed for small bore horns. Reducing the shank taper would necessitate a completely different backbore on the inside, and that would likely not work with the cup and throat setup on the 60 and 55.

[Doug Elliott]

Theoretically possible but it would be a nightmare to do it to an existing mouthpiece so it actually works.

As I have already spent decades developing and testing my own combinations that actually do work well, why not duplicate the rim size with a similar cup depth in my stuff, with a small shank?

[Nobbi]

Three times logical reasons not to do so. Was just an idea.
So I will enjoy the sound the 60 Symph produces on the King horn.
The idea of Doug doublicating the 60 on a small shank a friend and satisfied customer of him gave me already. Good to have a plan b in back hand and thanks for the offer, Doug.
Still have a sword in the fire for the small horns ... soon the LI 600SR should arrive. Let's see.

Thank you so much for your answers. Greetings, Nobbi

[MStarke]

One thing is to see if it's technically feasible to create a small shank equivalent that plays in tune etc. As others said it cannot be the same due to limitations in the shank and backbone. But probably there could be something that sort of feels similar (or close) and supports a sound that goes in the same direction also on a smaller horn.

But does this make sense?
If you play your Shires/Lawler in a typical small bore setting, eg bigband that is typically not what you want. If you would like to use them (for first trombone) in a symphony that might make sense.

Then on the other hand just do whatever you prefer

[ithinknot]

The Griego ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶A̶l̶e̶s̶s̶i̶ Artist line exists in small shank versions with that rim diameter, as does the Greg Black ̶J̶o̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶?̶ New York range, which is basically what you're looking for.

Personally I wouldn't bother - I understand why some people like this style for large bore purposes, though there might be easier and more characteristic options for small horns - but operators are standing by.

[harrisonreed]

I am not sure about those Griego Alessi small shank designs. The one meant for alto made it sound like a symphony tenor. I can't imagine what the 1C small shank would do.

[Nobbi]

The Griego ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶A̶l̶e̶s̶s̶i̶ Artist line exists in small shank versions with that rim diameter, as does the Greg Black ̶J̶o̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶?̶ New York range, which is basically what you're looking for.

Personally I wouldn't bother - I understand why some people like this style for large bore purposes, though there might be easier and more characteristic options for small horns - but operators are standing by.

Both small horns I play with a Greg Black New York 5m ... my favourite mouthpiece. Same mouthpiece I tested with a converter on the King and it played awesome so I bought a second large shank one and are very satisfied.
Nevertheless I love testing MPs ... so I took the chance to test the Laskeys.
The sound with the Laskey is different, is as fascinating and I will keep it.
The idea just came up with the thought, how that MP would sound on the small horns. I dropped that idea.

Thank you everyone here for your thoughts and amazing knowledge. I love to be here and learn!

Greetings, Nobbi