Use of hand rest affecting performance?

[bassboneman69]

Just gauging others experiences w bass trombone hand rests.
I have used the Bullet Brace and Get a Grip and Calder Grips…
I noticed during a gig tonight, experimenting with out a brace that some of my playing “seemed” more comfortable.
Is that because the way the horn sits on my embouchure is set at an angle that is “muscle memory” from the beginning of my playing career?
Or
Is it because perhaps the braces put the horn in a less than optimal position?
Or
Neither…

[GabrielRice]

I think there are two different things happening.

The Bullet Brace and others that clamp onto the bell brace definitely make the instrument feel more rigid and less responsive to me.

I have tried multiple times to find a position for the Get a Grip or Calder Grip, but I've failed every time. I cannot get my hand into a position that puts the instrument at the correct angle to my face.

What I use is the strap from Leather Specialties. It's the most flexible and adjustable on the fly, and it supports in the way I need.

[ghmerrill]

I use a bullet brace and have spent what seems like endless hours (days?) in adjusting it and readjusting it to get it into the "correct" position for me. Although I'm 6'2" tall, I don't have large hands and have even modified my slide brace (replacing the classic finger ring with a hook in a slightly different position) to better fit me. I'm a big proponent of "Don't adapt yourself to the instrument; adapt the instrument to you." approach -- especially for larger/heavier instruments such as tubas, bass trombones, and euphs.

It pretty quickly became apparent to me that perhaps the biggest issue with holding a bass trombone comfortably (and being able easily to use both triggers) pertained to the "balance point" so that as it sits in your hand it has "neutral (front-back) balance." It can't be held so that it's slide-heavy and so you're always having to use muscle power to hold the front up, and it can't be rear-heavy for the same reason. It has to sit in your hand and be useable (including both triggers) without any of that effort. Ideally, you should be able to hold it in your left hand alone in close to playing position and it doesn't tip up or down, but just remains parallel with the floor (like a scale balance arm). At least, for me, this has proved to be the ideal target. If that's achieved, the horn seems to become almost weightless.

If you get your brace just a bit wrong (too far forward, too far back, too high, too low) and miss that neutral balance point, then you've got a continuing problem. But I am definitely NOT comfortable holding the horn without some kind of support -- and this is true of my tubas (where I use a "sit-on" stand/support I made) and euph (where I use a cushioned lap board) as well. I do not want to wrestle with the horn as I'm trying to play it.

With the bullet brace, even a minute change in its position may wreck this neutral balance, and that's why I've tinkered with it so much. Still, I think it's not fully ideal because of the force it puts on the web of my left hand as I play -- even though I've replaced the stock lever cushion with a wine cork (!) to provide more comfort. But it's okay and not distracting. However, I'm about to try one or another of the other support devices (such as Get a Grip or the recently mentioned Calder) to see if I get more comfort there. But my concern is that these types of grips may not allow me to achieve the neutral balance that I think is so critical. We'll see.

[Burgerbob]

Yup, I've noticed this with certain grips and adjustments. I use a Get-A-Grip on my 42 but it's juuuuuust not quite right, probably due to the balance of the horn, and it messes me up after a while.

I do recommend the leather strap- they can be just about perfect.

[muschem]

The Bullet Brace and others that clamp onto the bell brace definitely make the instrument feel more rigid and less responsive to me.

I use an Ax Handle on large tenor and bass, and I also notice a difference with the clamp on the cross brace. There is an option to use an Ax Handle without requiring the separate clamp - Instrument Innovations makes a lever saddle with a through hole and set screw for the Ax Handles. Since the handle attaches directly to the saddle, I perceive less of a change vs. the separate clamp option. It is more difficult to A/B test that type of change, since swapping saddles requires a tech and torch, but I prefer the no-clamp option.

It is also easier to keep the handle on with the integrate saddle if you change out the valve to a straight gooseneck or a different valve (single plug vs double, etc.) regularly. Depending on the wrap and saddle/support brace placement, the clamp can interfere with detachment of the modular hardware on the brace. As has already been mentioned, adjustment of the handle can be pretty sensitive, and it is annoying to get it just right and then have to remove the clamp when you swap out components, only to go through the setup exercise again the next time.

[AtomicClock]

It pretty quickly became apparent to me that perhaps the biggest issue with holding a bass trombone comfortably (and being able easily to use both triggers) pertained to the "balance point" so that as it sits in your hand it has "neutral (front-back) balance."

There is no neutral-balance point. Or rather, the point moves away from you as the slide is extended, and towards you when the slide is brought back. The best brace position/counterweight you choose will result in a horn that is still sometimes nose-heavy, and sometimes tail-heavy. The best you can do is get somewhat close.

Imho, this is one of the reasons we generally prefer shorter slide positions. That's how horns are generally configured for balance. I'm toying with the idea of balancing the trombone in 3rd or 4th position. But given that I only have one counterweight, I haven't made a lot of progress.

[ghmerrill]

There is no neutral-balance point. Or rather, the point moves away from you as the slide is extended, ...

Yes, of course. I suppose I could have been more careful and specified that I attempt to achieve a neutral balance point with the slide closed or nearly closed -- and then I judiciously use the valves. That's one reason I'm committed to an independent bass. The more time you spend in more of an unbalanced position, the more you're just struggling with physics, which takes its toll. I struggled with physics for years until I finally made my own tuba support and the weight of the horn simply disappeared as a consideration (except for when I have to carry it ).

I don't think I'd care for an instrument whose "at rest" balance point is as far away as 4th position, but there's certainly room for individual differences, and somewhere in the 1-3 area would probably work well for most people.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I have used all three of the items discussed:

Get-a-Grip: This did not fit my hand and the angle was a little awkward. When I observed other players using it, I noticed that the portion that wraps around the area just below the slide tenon is almost always at about a 20 degree diagonal. In other words, nobody’s Get-a-Grip was really fitting properly. I have also noticed the same thing with Calder-Pips grips that I have observed in the wild.

I proceeded to experiment with my Get-a-Grip in my shop….bending and twisting it at least a dozen times. When I finally got it to fit my hand and be very comfortable, it was in a completely different shape than its original form. But here is the twist…..when it had perfect alignment (no diagonal angle) with the slide tenon area, it deadened the sound of the horn more.

Bullet Brace and Ax Handle: Just like the Get-a-Grip, the one-size-fits-all philosophy does not apply. Both of these have required me to bend and twist the C-shaped rod to make it extend farther down towards the hand slide in order to fit my hand. I had to bend my Ax Handle (on my Greenhoe) more than the Bullet Brace (on my Edwards). Both of them work extremely well for me. I have noticed an acoustical impact with both of these, but less than the Get-a-Grip.

[ghmerrill]

Both of these have required me to bend and twist the C-shaped rod to make it extend farther down towards the hand slide in order to fit my hand.

I don't use the C-shaped rod on my Bullet brace, but the "S" rod. This shape provides for (I think) added dimensions of adjustability. In place of the "cushioned sleeve" I use a (synthetic) wine cork that I drilled a hole through and that fits the web of my hand better and distributes the weight there in a better way. It did take me quite a while to get it adjusted optimally, and I did modify my finger trigger a bit to put it in a more natural position with the brace in use (and the paddle is now an old 5 centime French coin, but I'm not sure that's really essential, though it's a good size and perhaps adds a touch of elegance ).

In terms of acoustical impact, I think I must be fairly insensitive to this. But it doesn't matter to me since playing the horn without some sort of aid, such as the Bullet brace, is infeasible. I'd love to try the Calder brace, but three distinct attempts to order one now (through three different communication channels) have resulted in no response.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Just looked at all the photos on the CalderPips thread in “Classified (Everything Else)” category. Many of the photos show the part connected to the slide tenon are as being off by about 15 degrees or more while the musicians are holding the trombone. Why? It is a great idea but I believe it should be bent at a sharper angle from the beginning.

[tbdana]

I use the Neotech brace on my Lindberg 88H, and after getting the adjustment right have had zero problems with it. Very comfortable and makes playing much easier. Might try that one. Of course, YMMV.