Relevant Relics

[heldenbone]

I had the opportunity to spend some quality time with a slightly battle- scarred but wholly delightful King Duo Gravis recently. I quite enjoy how my Eterna bass plays; the consistency, the sonority, the ability to "make the euphoniums regret their choice of instrument" (conductor's admonishment at one occasion). The 6Bs agility, snappy response, ability to play forward if desired (maybe too easy), and even its willingness to play valved Ds and Cs all made for a fun, almost tenor-ish experience. I think I want one, or something like it. I gather the 7B has the tight attachment size too. Are there other bass trombones that are similarly hotrods?

Richard

[Kevbach33]

Those King basses are the only other bass trombones I have an interest in playing for my needs (barring having the money for an M&W). My big band section is all King now (2BSS, 2B and 3BF) except me and my Eterna.

For other, "hot-rod-like" bass bones, the Conn 7xH basses also get my vote, being smaller after the valve(s) than most.

[ScottZigler]

Glad you enjoyed playing my Duo Gravis. "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts." I've always wondered about the 7B ... I'd love to have an independent valve setup instead, but I'm afraid that would no longer sound like a Duo Gravis. I'm also very interested to hear of anyone else who's played on the 7B ... does it keep the same character? Or does having two valves on the gooseneck change it too much?

I had the opportunity to spend some quality time with a slightly battle- scarred but wholly delightful King Duo Gravis recently. I quite enjoy how my Eterna bass plays; the consistency, the sonority, the ability to "make the euphoniums regret their choice of instrument" (conductor's admonishment at one occasion). The 6Bs agility, snappy response, ability to play forward if desired (maybe too easy), and even its willingness to play valved Ds and Cs all made for a fun, almost tenor-ish experience. I think I want one, or something like it. I gather the 7B has the tight attachment size too. Are there other bass trombones that are similarly hotrods?

Richard

[heldenbone]

I guess no one with an interest in small, light, hot rod basses is in the mood to share. I *have* played an 8B for a little while. It plays "big" and has its own distinctive sound. It has oversize attachment tubing like most being made now, including my Eterna. I didn't care for it , but my relative lack of experience with different basses makes my opinion less valuable than some.

[Burgerbob]

7B is an interesting horn, I wouldn't say it's like a 6B though.

IMO there are other great responding horns out there in the modern style- my huge orchestral cannon Shires Curran model is one of the easiest, quickest horns I've ever played... but obviously it's not a Duo Gravis.

[JohnL]

I think George McCracken and Alan Raph came up with a very special combination in the Duo Gravis. It's not just the smaller attachment tubing. It's the valves, the tapers in the bell section, the leadpipe, the wraps - heck, probably even the end crook has something to do with making the DG exactly what it is.

[boneagain]

I think George McCracken and Alan Raph came up with a very special combination in the Duo Gravis. It's not just the smaller attachment tubing. It's the valves, the tapers in the bell section, the leadpipe, the wraps - heck, probably even the end crook has something to do with making the DG exactly what it is.

Just to be clear: Alan Raph instigated the Duo Gravis, and did all the test playing. Raph was pretty emphatic that McCracken did ALL the physical stuff to meet Raph's playing requirements.

And, yeah, it was end-to-end new, with the bell taper designed by George and NOT based on any other bell.

BTW: from design to first production it was a Silver Sonic, balanced for a 1 1/2G "popping frequency". The brass bells came after

They all sound pretty good to me, and not like anything else I've played/heard before or since.

[hyperbolica]

I guess no one with an interest in small, light, hot rod basses is in the mood to share. I *have* played an 8B for a little while. It plays "big" and has its own distinctive sound. It has oversize attachment tubing like most being made now, including my Eterna. I didn't care for it , but my relative lack of experience with different basses makes my opinion less valuable than some.

I like the lighter horns, and being "not really a bass player, but playing primarily bass", my opinion is way off the norm, especially for bass bone players. A lot of my bass bone playing has been done switching back and forth between horns to try to find something that works for me.

But, the basses I have enjoyed have been:

1) Olds p24g - a very tenorish bass. Kind of rare. Funky valves.
2) Duo Gravis - I had an emotionally fraught situation with this horn, and really didn't give it a chance, but I think it would have worked for me, although I'm not a big King fan.
3) 193(2?) 70h with TIS, 547/562 slide and 9" bell. I should have kept this, but it felt like a broken down instrument. I've also played 72h, but the singles don't really do it for me. I had an Eb extension for the 70h, but that didn't do it either. I wish I felt I could commit the resources to a real Conn double, like a 62hi or a converted 60h or even a 112h.
4) Bach 50b2 I had one of these early in my quest. I probably could have stopped right there and just played that, but I was too curious about other horns.
5) Experimental Wessex double valve tenor. This was probably the best bass I've ever had. I took this and a Kanstul 1662i to a big band rehearsal, and the section MUCH preferred the Kanstul. So even though it was harder to play and far less satisfying for me, I kept the Kanstul and sold the Wessex.
6) I am in the process of adding a plug-in valve to a Holton 159. I have high hopes for this, and this time I don't care what anybody else thinks about Holton vs Kanstul. I'm just going to play what's easier and sounds like a trombone.

Stuff I've wanted to try on the lighter side:
1) Conn 88hK bell with the 547/562 slide and Ferguson V mouthpiece. I think this would be a great combination.
2) I have this idea that a Holton 180 would work for me, but I've never tried one, and you can't just throw a couple of grand at every hair-brained idea.

Stuff I tried and didn't like:
1) Yamaha basses
2) Benge 290 - just too much horn for me
3) Holton 181 - felt unwieldy and unfocused among other things
4) Edwards bass - heavy
5) Shires bass - heavy and uninspiring
6) Anything with an axial valve - felt like blowing through a screen.

The thing about the Kanstul is that is has this deep, rich, velvety (slide-euphoniumy) sound that is so seductive below the staff. But bass trombone should be able to do more than that. Above the staff, the player feedback for the Kanstul is like a kazoo, but the Holton 159 can play like a tenor or a small bass, depending on the mouthpiece.

[Finetales]

I guess no one with an interest in small, light, hot rod basses is in the mood to share. I *have* played an 8B for a little while. It plays "big" and has its own distinctive sound. It has oversize attachment tubing like most being made now, including my Eterna. I didn't care for it , but my relative lack of experience with different basses makes my opinion less valuable than some.

I just picked up a 1961 King 1480 Symphony, the second one I've owned. Despite having a slide bore of .536, it really is a small bass trombone, with very fast expansion after the valve and a big throated bell. Hates tenor mouthpieces and is much happier with my bass piece. The 1480 was the sound of Bart Varselona in the Kenton band...doesn't get much barkier and hot rod-ier than that!

Aside from that, my main bass trombone that I use for everything is a 72H (definitely a small "hot rod" by modern standards) with independent valves. I like zippy horns apparently!

I also briefly owned an S24G. I wouldn't really describe it as a hot rod as it had a very broad yet colorful sound. The small rotors on the other hand...

[JohnL]

I also briefly owned an S24G. I wouldn't really describe it as a hot rod as it had a very broad yet colorful sound. The small rotors on the other hand...

Those small rotors are one of the S-24G's defining features, for better or for worse.

For me, the P-24G/Schilke 60 combination will take everything I can put into it without backing up, and the sound gets a set of spines a porcupine would envy when pushed really hard. The S-24G/Schilke 60 pairing, OTOH, "maxes out" before the sound has a chance to get really spikey. The nearest analogy I can think of is a rev limiter on an engine. I don't really notice the difference until I hit that limit.