Hello! I'm a french horn player and for about 2 years I have this hesitation on initial attack(my throat closes and my tongue comes forward and blocks the air) I tried to study with a metronome where I have no problem attacking any note as fast as I turn it off the hesitation comes back. Do you have any advice for this problem? It really sucks and cant perform anywhere cuz of it. Thanks!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmAacIfIzQQ
Hesitation on initial attack
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ttf_anonymous
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ttf_Sliphorn
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Hesitation on initial attack
It's a common problem. I have the same issue sometimes. A few things that usually help for me:
1. Make sure the air is always in motion. Either it's drawing in, or it's going out. Don't halt it, especially at the peak of the breath. Immediate turnaround. No "hang."
2. Imagine a conductor counting in your entrance. Watch the hands in your mind conduct 1,2,3,4 PLAY. Almost always works for me.
The hesitation only occurs when I'm thinking about stuff instead of just playing. Purely psychological.
1. Make sure the air is always in motion. Either it's drawing in, or it's going out. Don't halt it, especially at the peak of the breath. Immediate turnaround. No "hang."
2. Imagine a conductor counting in your entrance. Watch the hands in your mind conduct 1,2,3,4 PLAY. Almost always works for me.
The hesitation only occurs when I'm thinking about stuff instead of just playing. Purely psychological.
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ttf_Geezerhorn
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Hesitation on initial attack
Learn to connect your tongue to your foot.
...Geezer
...Geezer
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ttf_TromboneMonkey
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Hesitation on initial attack
Contact Doug Elliott on this forum. He will help.
Long tones are your best friend for immediacy of attack. Work on centering the note as quickly as possible. When playing a note, keep your lips on your mouthpiece at all times, draw your corners back while keeping the middle of your lips together, and bring your corners forward while breathing and articulating the note. It should all happen as one motion. Doing that and then holding the note you've attacked for a long time will train your chops to facilitate said note with precision.
Long tones are your best friend for immediacy of attack. Work on centering the note as quickly as possible. When playing a note, keep your lips on your mouthpiece at all times, draw your corners back while keeping the middle of your lips together, and bring your corners forward while breathing and articulating the note. It should all happen as one motion. Doing that and then holding the note you've attacked for a long time will train your chops to facilitate said note with precision.
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ttf_cigmar
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Hesitation on initial attack
Look into Carusso's "Six Notes" and his method of executing.
Hopefully Sam will chime in on this.
Hopefully Sam will chime in on this.
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ttf_kbiggs
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Hesitation on initial attack
Timing is everything. Learn to keep very strict internal time and coordinate tongue with breathing. Turn the metronome off for now. You seem to be allowing the metronome to set your time. Don't rely on it--develop your internal clock. Breathing in time helps, but (this is controversial) is not essential. Do keep your breathing in constant motion. Avoid a "hitch" or a "pause" before releasing the air.
Set embouchure. Breath. Place tongue. Release tongue.
Set embouchure. Breath. Place tongue. Release tongue.
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ttf_Andrew Meronek
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Hesitation on initial attack
If you're doing breathing exercises which include periods of being fully inhaled or exhaled (like in ensemble warmups or something), never close off the air with your throat or tongue or soft palette or anything during those exercises. It's better to simply keep the airway open and use your muscles to try to keep fully inhaled or exhaled, depending on where in the breathing cycle you are.
I don't know if you're doing something like that, but that method of deliberately closing off the air can reinforce bad habits, just in case.
I don't know if you're doing something like that, but that method of deliberately closing off the air can reinforce bad habits, just in case.
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ttf_Andrusca98
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Hesitation on initial attack
I did this exercise for while (till i got this problem with attack) 8 in 8 keep then 8 out. I think this is one of the reason I have this problem now.
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ttf_savio
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Hesitation on initial attack
In addition to all the good answer above, it seems to me it was mostly on the low notes? Have the pitch and sound in your head before the attack will maybe help?
Yesterday I had a little kid on cornet. His attack was always very sloopy or unclear. Im usually no good to fix things like that, but yesterday I had luck. I took a wild guess and told him to not put the tongue forward between the teeth. Instead put it behind the upper teeth on the attack and put it low and back after attack. I was surprised because suddenly the attack was clear and nice. Hurray!
But I warn all, it worked for him but will maybe not work for everyone. Best to make a lesson with people like Doug or somebody that is used to deal with technique.
Leif
Yesterday I had a little kid on cornet. His attack was always very sloopy or unclear. Im usually no good to fix things like that, but yesterday I had luck. I took a wild guess and told him to not put the tongue forward between the teeth. Instead put it behind the upper teeth on the attack and put it low and back after attack. I was surprised because suddenly the attack was clear and nice. Hurray!
But I warn all, it worked for him but will maybe not work for everyone. Best to make a lesson with people like Doug or somebody that is used to deal with technique.
Leif
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ttf_watermailonman
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Hesitation on initial attack
Quote from: Sliphorn on May 02, 2017, 09:14AMIt's a common problem. I have the same issue sometimes. A few things that usually help for me:
1. Make sure the air is always in motion. Either it's drawing in, or it's going out. Don't halt it, especially at the peak of the breath. Immediate turnaround. No "hang."
2. Imagine a conductor counting in your entrance. Watch the hands in your mind conduct 1,2,3,4 PLAY. Almost always works for me.
The hesitation only occurs when I'm thinking about stuff instead of just playing. Purely psychological.
This is good avice!
It IS a common problem that can happen to very fine players and it is psychological. I guess it only happens when you start a piece or after a long rest when you have time to think of other things, such as "you are having this problem" which doesn't make it easier.
I experienced the problem after studying with a teacher who complained about my initial start because it wasn't perfect, and constantly interrupted me to a point I completely had no confidence to start anything on the instrument.
Unfortunately he did never tell how to do it differently but only said it had to be better. It just built pressure and uncertainty into the equation. I got no clue from him to help to solve that puzzle
What helped me was a variant of the second tip from sliphorn that I came up with myself. I imagied my self to have played the first bar already so I mentally looked on my first bar as a repeat. It helped me to focus solely on time and music and think less of the problem. Eventually the problem disappeared and I got my confidence back. You could try that. I think the imagination of a waving conductor does the same thing. It is something I will try now.
/Tom
1. Make sure the air is always in motion. Either it's drawing in, or it's going out. Don't halt it, especially at the peak of the breath. Immediate turnaround. No "hang."
2. Imagine a conductor counting in your entrance. Watch the hands in your mind conduct 1,2,3,4 PLAY. Almost always works for me.
The hesitation only occurs when I'm thinking about stuff instead of just playing. Purely psychological.
This is good avice!
It IS a common problem that can happen to very fine players and it is psychological. I guess it only happens when you start a piece or after a long rest when you have time to think of other things, such as "you are having this problem" which doesn't make it easier.
I experienced the problem after studying with a teacher who complained about my initial start because it wasn't perfect, and constantly interrupted me to a point I completely had no confidence to start anything on the instrument.
Unfortunately he did never tell how to do it differently but only said it had to be better. It just built pressure and uncertainty into the equation. I got no clue from him to help to solve that puzzle
What helped me was a variant of the second tip from sliphorn that I came up with myself. I imagied my self to have played the first bar already so I mentally looked on my first bar as a repeat. It helped me to focus solely on time and music and think less of the problem. Eventually the problem disappeared and I got my confidence back. You could try that. I think the imagination of a waving conductor does the same thing. It is something I will try now.
/Tom
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ttf_Andrusca98
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Hesitation on initial attack
Yes it mostly happends on low and middle register. In high register only sometimes.I also lack cofidence cuz I got this problem for about 2 years. When I manage to not think about this problem the attacks work perfectly.
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ttf_Pre59
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Hesitation on initial attack
My take on this would be to use Air notes. Keep the the m/p on the lips and play 2 notes a second in the middle register, and keep doing this until the attack is really clean.
The tongue then becomes a smaller element in starting a clean attack, I practice clusters of notes with and without the tongue and try to make them sound the same.
The tongue then becomes a smaller element in starting a clean attack, I practice clusters of notes with and without the tongue and try to make them sound the same.
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ttf_sabutin
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Hesitation on initial attack
A timing issue, almost every time. Generally speaking, I use straight Carmine Caruso exercises to help this very common problem, especially the Six Notes. However...if you do not do them totally correctly, they won't help much. It's hard to learn how to do them w/out live aural guidance.
Try this version of what kbiggs suggests above:
1-Turn off the metronome and replace it with your own foot, tapped at a relatively slow tempo in 4/4...somewhere between MM=60 to 80...while mentally subdividing 16th notes in your head.
1-Put your horn at one of its normal rest positions. While continuing to tap your foot, raise the horn towards your chops while:
a-taking a normal playing breath
b-forming the embouchure for your most reliable midrange note
c-getting the right fingering for the desired note (it often helps if you have first sung the note or heard it on a keyboard or tuner), including on your
horn the correct right hand position
d-setting your support system for the note
e-next to last but not least, raising your tongue to the desired attack position
and finally
f-dropping your tongue to start the note at exactly the right moment.
Sounds kinda...complicated...doesn't it.
Well...it is complicated. But it's a process that every successful brass player...successful at every level, grade school right on through to grandmaster...performs hundreds of times daily, mostly without a whole lot of "thinking" going on. If you were able to perform before this started, you did it too.
Completely unconsciously.
And somehow/some way you lost the sequence and the timing of that sequence.
It can be relearned, but you cannot "think" your way into it. Every individual has his or her own particular "sequence." You need to relearn...or maybe better... create/recreate your own timings.
S.
Try this version of what kbiggs suggests above:
1-Turn off the metronome and replace it with your own foot, tapped at a relatively slow tempo in 4/4...somewhere between MM=60 to 80...while mentally subdividing 16th notes in your head.
1-Put your horn at one of its normal rest positions. While continuing to tap your foot, raise the horn towards your chops while:
a-taking a normal playing breath
b-forming the embouchure for your most reliable midrange note
c-getting the right fingering for the desired note (it often helps if you have first sung the note or heard it on a keyboard or tuner), including on your
horn the correct right hand position
d-setting your support system for the note
e-next to last but not least, raising your tongue to the desired attack position
and finally
f-dropping your tongue to start the note at exactly the right moment.
Sounds kinda...complicated...doesn't it.
Well...it is complicated. But it's a process that every successful brass player...successful at every level, grade school right on through to grandmaster...performs hundreds of times daily, mostly without a whole lot of "thinking" going on. If you were able to perform before this started, you did it too.
Completely unconsciously.
And somehow/some way you lost the sequence and the timing of that sequence.
It can be relearned, but you cannot "think" your way into it. Every individual has his or her own particular "sequence." You need to relearn...or maybe better... create/recreate your own timings.
S.
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ttf_W/SBTRB
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Hesitation on initial attack
I had this problem one summer back in the 70's while a college student. I like to think in terms of analogies. When watching a really good tennis player notice s/he maintains a continuous rocking motion while waiting to receive the volley. The rocking motion allows him/her to have the momentum to go the direction of the ball immediately. Think air in out rock back and forth and breathe in /out as you move. Apply this to blowing your trombone with out the tongue being used. Next add the tongue. I found myself using this helped a great deal and use it with students.
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ttf_W/SBTRB
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Hesitation on initial attack
I had this problem one summer back in the 70's while a college student. I like to think in terms of analogies. When watching a really good tennis player notice s/he maintains a continuous rocking motion while waiting to receive the volley. The rocking motion allows him/her to have the momentum to go the direction of the ball immediately. Think air in out rock back and forth and breathe in /out as you move. Apply this to blowing your trombone with out the tongue being used. Next add the tongue. I found myself using this helped a great deal and use it with students.