Trombone jazz Improv?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:30 am

I'm a bass trombone player, and I've been playing jazz for about five years. I've been taking solos for about three of those, but I still don't find myself playing the way I want to. You know those trombone soloists who play amazing solos for 10 minutes straight? I want to play like that! Wycliffe Gordon, Kai, JJ, Phil Wilson. What should I work on in particular? Are there certain odd, extended modal scales that help, or maybe a technique you guys know? Any help is welcome!

I'm still in college so there's plenty of room to grow as a musician, but I want to tackle soloing specifically. Thanks in advance fellow trombonists!

-Stuart

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:22 pm

We have covered the answer to your question extensively in two very recent topics. You might care to read them because most of the experts on this forum contributed valuable information:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,99032.0.html

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,96083.0.html

I said more or less the same thing in the first topic listed here because 96083 was very good.

ttf_uncle duke · Post by **ttf_uncle duke** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:19 pm

Well, for ten minutes of soloing you're going to need ten minutes of at the least a recording of a rhythm section to listen to. Maybe somehow make a cd with whatever chord progressions you can think of to play along with.
At first, if it were to be me trying my hand at ten minute soloing, I couldn't see myself soloing past 30 seconds or so. I've never timed myself but I'm sure I'd run out of ideas to apply notes with.

Given a c.d. backing track running for 10 minutes or so one could possibly enhance soloing time lengths- maybe put that on the to do list.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:38 pm

You could use Band-in-a-Box for the chord progression with a rhythm section and repeat it as many times as you want. One or three mouse clicks and it's transposed into another key. Save it as a wave file if you wish and loop it endlessly.

...Geezer

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:40 pm

Ireal pro

A couple of bucks.

ttf_LeoInFL · Post by **ttf_LeoInFL** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:49 pm

Do a youtube search on "Blues Scale". Very helpful information and the pattern is easy to understand.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:49 pm

Learn to make a cogent solo in 1 chorus. Then 2. I don't know of a single big band that will let me solo for more than a chorus or two. Ten minutes? Not unless you really are that good. There is a famous story of Coltrane soloing for 32 choruses. At the end of it, Miles Davis turned to him and asked "why didn't you just shut the f* up?".

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:06 am

I do take solos if asked. Often as 2:nd or 1:st in a big band. I have never studied this with a teacher, so I did not learn by patterns or playing different scales over chords. I guess there are great methods out there to learn this. The last 5 years or something I have concentrate on pentatonic scales over chords and chords changes and it has helped me. Of course I have played all major, minor, diminished, whole tone scales over the years because it is a part of learning the instrument, but I have never thought "scales" or patterns while actually playing. I would like to learn some day. What I'm saying is you just can learn by listening and start doing it. Of course you need to know your way around the instrument to be good.

Now I have comment about playing improvjsations for 10 minutes and make it interesting on the trombone. I think there are very few who can achieve that with an audience. If not Bill Watrous class.

To me the easiest solo is about 2 choruses. More than that and you need skills properly and tactically build a solo, and if shorter, let's say 8 bars it must be your best bars ever. So ideal is about 1-1.5 minute for me.

/Tom

ttf_Russ White · Post by **ttf_Russ White** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:27 am

10 minute solos are definitely a small group/ combo phenomenon. On the horn it requires virtuousity both on the instrument and of the musical understanding of form and structure. More so than that, it requires a pretty sophisticated audience that is willing to sit through it, and is capable of grasping the expression of that virtuosity. It's not a big segment of the music listening public. THere are very few Coltranes out there, and there is not a huge audience for what he sold, as amazingly wonderful as it is. My wife calls it "musical masturbation".

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:53 am

LEARN THE MELODY INSIDE AND OUT
-----------
play that melody until the eclipse
------------
dont get off the melody
-------------
LISTEN ////LISTEN TO THE BIRDS
--------------------
no matter what //where they land --the melody is with them
------------------
make it yours --make it YOUR SONG --from the inside out
--------------
its not about notes ---its about music --
---------------
SAY SOMETHING ALREADY
------------------------
''PRACTICE AT HOME ''----FRED WESLEY @ ITF COLUMBUS GA

Quote from: Froschthecat on Apr 28, 2017, 09:30AMI'm a bass trombone player, and I've been playing jazz for about five years. I've been taking solos for about three of those, but I still don't find myself playing the way I want to. You know those trombone soloists who play amazing solos for 10 minutes straight? I want to play like that! Wycliffe Gordon, Kai, JJ, Phil Wilson. What should I work on in particular? Are there certain odd, extended modal scales that help, or maybe a technique you guys know? Any help is welcome!

I'm still in college so there's plenty of room to grow as a musician, but I want to tackle soloing specifically. Thanks in advance fellow trombonists!

-Stuart

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:53 am

LEARN THE MELODY INSIDE AND OUT
-----------
play that melody until the eclipse
------------
dont get off the melody
-------------
LISTEN ////LISTEN TO THE BIRDS
--------------------
no matter what //where they land --the melody is with them
------------------
make it yours --make it YOUR SONG --from the inside out
--------------
its not about notes ---its about music --
---------------
SAY SOMETHING ALREADY
------------------------
''PRACTICE AT HOME ''----FRED WESLEY @ ITF COLUMBUS GA

Quote from: Froschthecat on Apr 28, 2017, 09:30AMI'm a bass trombone player, and I've been playing jazz for about five years. I've been taking solos for about three of those, but I still don't find myself playing the way I want to. You know those trombone soloists who play amazing solos for 10 minutes straight? I want to play like that! Wycliffe Gordon, Kai, JJ, Phil Wilson. What should I work on in particular? Are there certain odd, extended modal scales that help, or maybe a technique you guys know? Any help is welcome!

I'm still in college so there's plenty of room to grow as a musician, but I want to tackle soloing specifically. Thanks in advance fellow trombonists!

-Stuart