Pedal Tones- Tenor vs Euphonium

[RossM]

Hey all!
I primarily play euphonium but have been practicing more trombone lately to prepare for some upcoming performances. I have a decent control of the pedal range on euph and can typically play down down to an E without shifting. I struggle to cleanly hit even a Bb on trombone without working my way down to it gradually, and can't get anything passable out after Ab. I wondered if it was the difference in rim size (4.5 on trombone, 3 on euph), but swapping mouthpieces didn't seem to affect it on either instrument.
Any advice would be appreciated!

[Burgerbob]

Euphonium has a lot of natural resistance that, for lack of better words, just makes it generally easier to play. For any given note, you need less chop engagement and air on euphonium than you do on trombone. *should* you play it that way? No, not really. The best euphonium sounds come from strong chops and good air as well.

The primary difference is that trombone needs a bit more resistance at the face than euphonium does.

[RossM]

Euphonium has a lot of natural resistance that, for lack of better words, just makes it generally easier to play. For any given note, you need less chop engagement and air on euphonium than you do on trombone. *should* you play it that way? No, not really. The best euphonium sounds come from strong chops and good air as well.

The primary difference is that trombone needs a bit more resistance at the face than euphonium does.

That certainly tracks with my experience of the two instruments. To add more resistance at the face I should try not to relax or open my aperture as I descend?

[Burgerbob]

That certainly tracks with my experience of the two instruments. To add more resistance at the face I should try not to relax or open my aperture as I descend?

I wouldn't say that exactly, I don't want to introduce tension to your setup- but I would just think a more focused feeling at the aperture. I think you'll find it may help euphonium too.

[hyperbolica]

Hey all!
I primarily play euphonium but have been practicing more trombone lately to prepare for some upcoming performances. I have a decent control of the pedal range on euph and can typically play down down to an E without shifting. I struggle to cleanly hit even a Bb on trombone without working my way down to it gradually, and can't get anything passable out after Ab. I wondered if it was the difference in rim size (4.5 on trombone, 3 on euph), but swapping mouthpieces didn't seem to affect it on either instrument.
Any advice would be appreciated!

I come at the same problem from the other angle, and have exactly the same issue. (Bone player doubles on euph, can't play low on bone). I can play down to pedal Db on euph, and only pedal G on bone. Playing too much euph affects my bone chops, high and low. So I try not to mix them up too much. I really don't rely on euph for any pro-level playing, so its easy to avoid. The euph is just easier in a lot of ways. I use it to relax more than anything.

[RossM]

That certainly tracks with my experience of the two instruments. To add more resistance at the face I should try not to relax or open my aperture as I descend?

I wouldn't say that exactly, I don't want to introduce tension to your setup- but I would just think a more focused feeling at the aperture. I think you'll find it may help euphonium too.

Totally, I'll give that a try this evening!

[RossM]

Hey all!
I primarily play euphonium but have been practicing more trombone lately to prepare for some upcoming performances. I have a decent control of the pedal range on euph and can typically play down down to an E without shifting. I struggle to cleanly hit even a Bb on trombone without working my way down to it gradually, and can't get anything passable out after Ab. I wondered if it was the difference in rim size (4.5 on trombone, 3 on euph), but swapping mouthpieces didn't seem to affect it on either instrument.
Any advice would be appreciated!

I come at the same problem from the other angle, and have exactly the same issue. (Bone player doubles on euph, can't play low on bone). I can play down to pedal Db on euph, and only pedal G on bone. Playing too much euph affects my bone chops, high and low. So I try not to mix them up too much. I really don't rely on euph for any pro-level playing, so its easy to avoid. The euph is just easier in a lot of ways. I use it to relax more than anything.

Glad I'm not the only one at least! I usually play trombone to relax, as euph just makes me tense , but it was my first love.

[timothy42b]

I think there is an actual acoustical difference. I'll see if I can find a reference in a bit, but what I recall is that the trombone does not have an actual resonance at the pedal fundamental; all we hear are the upper harmonics and the ear/brain produces the pitch. But conical instruments do have the fundamental on the horn.