Traditional vs Orchestral

[Trhtrbn]

I am a currently playing and practicing on my YSL-3530R, from Japan, which is similar to a YSL-354 with a “Rose” brass bell. It is 0.485 bore, YAC46B is the mouthpiece I am using. My understanding is that a large bore tenor with f attachment is mostly for orchestral music. I notice that most jazz and some pop trombone players use a “Straight” horn. I am playing in a community concert band and the others in the trombone section use a large bore horn with f attachment. I am learning to play tenor as I had only doubled on tuba and bass bone in the past. I am currently getting my chops in shape and working on fundamentals, though, I do play songs for fun and sight reading. My thinking is I should stay on the “straight” horn until I get my basics down, is this a good idea?

[Cmillar]

Well....you live close enough to some of the greatest musicians in the world out there playing a lot of outdoor concerts.

I suggest going out to see what other trombone players are using when they're playing in big band jazz, orchestral gigs, concert bands, Latin bands, etc. etc.

Say hi, talk to them! Ask them what they're using and why.

[JeffBone44]

You are correct in that most jazz tenor players use a straight horn. They are typically around .495 - .508 bore (called small bore), although some go even smaller(.485), and others use a medium bore (.525). This is #1 for sound concept, as a bright sound with edge to the articulations is preferred in many of those situations, and also #2 to facilitate playing in the high range. Most people with those horns use a mouthpiece anywhere in size from a 6 1/2AL to 12C. On small bore I happen to use a Doug Elliott mouthpiece with a 3G-ish rim with a shallower cup because that's what feels comfortable for me to play on.

For orchestra and band, certainly large bore with F-attachment is preferred. However, for some repertoire you will see the principal player use a straight .547, such as a Conn 8H, because the valve isn't needed, and some like the response of a horn without a trigger. Also, some will use a .525 in certain situations, and dual bore .525-.547 are popular with some players too.

I don't see the issue with getting a horn with an F-attachment while you are still learning and getting your basics down. I would just say to not use the F-attachment as a replacement for 6th or 7th position. I like to practice passages that use those notes both with the F-attachment and without so that I am comfortable with playing the outer positions. Even while playing bass trombone, many passages are made easier and slide movement can be reduced by using 6th position for C and F instead of the valves. I try not to use 7th because I have short arms! (Although I can play in 7th if I absolutely have to.)

[BGuttman]

In a Community Band it really doesn't matter what you play, as long as you hit most of the notes on time and in tune. Some 3rd trombone parts need an F-attachment, but I've never seen a 1st or 2nd trombone part that really needed one. Just play what you want and have fun.

[tbdana]

I'd stick with your YSL-3530R for now. This a model that was only available in Japan, and is from the 1980's. It has a beautiful 8" Rose brass bell and a .500/.525 dual bore lightweight slide. The rose bell plays with lots of color. This is an excellent trombone for a comeback player looking for something a little bigger than the typical .495 bore or thereabouts. It's great for jazz, and works well in your community band setting, too.

You're kind of all over the place right now in terms of horns, teachers, what you're practicing, etc. I'd suggest settling down for a while, and getting to know the horn you have, getting the most out of your comeback chops, and figuring out what it is that you want to play and do for the present and future. It's more important to have some stability right now than it is to get tits and ass equipment.

I'll tell you that in 20 years of playing commercial, jazz, rock, and pop music in L.A., I got by just fine on a .509 bore horn. I didn't need to use my .547 horn with F attachment in any of those settings. I did need it when doing symphony work, orchestral recordings, and some legit brass groups, but it sounds like you're not going to be in that play anytime soon. And it is far, far better to take your time and find out where you're going to be a year from now before jumping-in to buy trombones that you may or may not use later, or that you may or may not like later.

Focus on getting the most you can out of that Yamaha. Find out who you are before jumping into the bottomless pit of of equipment purchases.

[JohnL]

Considering that you have sold off a YBL-612 bass, a Bach Omega larger bore tenor with f-attachment and a YSL-352 tenor in just over a month, I would suggest that you stay the course and stick with the YSL-3530R for a least a few months.

[Posaunus]

I am a currently playing and practicing on my YSL-3530R, from Japan, which is similar to a YSL-354 with a “Rose” brass bell. It is 0.485 bore, YAC46B is the mouthpiece I am using.

I'm confused about your equipment (or you are). I've never seen this Japan-only Yamaha YSL-3530R trombone, but I had understood that it has a 0.500"/0.525" dual-bore slide and an 8" rose brass bell, which makes it rather different from (and somewhat larger than) a YSL-354, which actually has a 0.500" bore slide. It also seems to me that a Yamaha 46B mouthpiece is too small for this trombone. But you wrote the other day that you are using a Bach 7C mouthpiece. Which is it? Are you happy with either mouthpiece? Is it time to contact Doug Elliott?

[Trhtrbn]

I am confused as well. The ysl-3530 part of the horn is only the bell section. The slide is about 0.485 and NOT dual bore and there are no markings on the slide, anywhere. I am guessing it is from an intermediate yamaha that is small bore. The slide is a about 1/2” wider and 1” longer than the ysl-352 slide, which is 0.500 bore but both slides will attach to the bell assembly. Jsyk, I had to try the bass bone and the large bore tenor and the 352, however, I like the vibrations and sound of the 3530 better than any of the others. For all I know the slide on the 3530 is not even yamaha. I am taking lessons locally and will focus on fundamentals and basic improvising because I would like to play in the local swing ensemble in the future. Thank you all for your help and guidance;

[Trhtrbn]

I am saying the unkown slide is about 0.485 bore.
I am sticking with this horn, I really like the way it plays and sounds. I am starting lessons locally and sticking with the 3530 and the 46B for a longtime to come.

[tbonesullivan]

Now, you are mentioning that the 3530R is only a bell section? Does it have a slide? What is the other bell section you've been showing pictures of? How many bell sections and slides do you have? You previously showed a picture of a slide with such worn markings I couldn't tell what it said, and had pictures of two different Yamaha bell sections with that. Is that the YSL-352 slide you are talking about?

https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=32132

For most Yamaha trombones they were either marked on the slide, or marked on the bell section receiver, but not both.

[Trhtrbn]

The ysl-352 is a completely different horn. It is absolutely a 0.500 bore receiver but the slide is about 1/2” narrower than the “unknown” slide that came with the ysl-3530,?the bell section is the only part with model and serial numbers stamped on it. Even though the slide that came with the 3530r bell section is only about a 0.485 bore receiver, the slide is about 1/2” wider than the 352 slide. It may not be a Yamaha slide or it was customized for someone, possibly. If it was dual bore wouldn’t the lead pipe be removable? The 3530r slide does not have a removable lead pipe.

[Trhtrbn]

Btw, when I ordered the ysl-3530r from eBay Japan, it was listed as a ysl-455g. When I contacted the seller they gave me a $150 rebate, so I paid $300 plus shipping for the ysl-3530r.

[Posaunus]

Btw, when I ordered the ysl-3530r from eBay Japan, it was listed as a ysl-455g. When I contacted the seller they gave me a $150 rebate, so I paid $300 plus shipping for the ysl-3530r.

Hmm. The YSL-455G is a 0.525" single-bore trombone with an 8½" bell.
Are you sure that you have a legitimate 3530R? What (if anything) is engraved on the bell? What is the bell diameter?

By the way, the "bore" refers to the inside diameter of the inner slide tubes, not the "receiver" - which is the female socket on the bell section into which the slide tenon is inserted. There is no way that your bell receiver is 0.485" diameter. How have you taken your measurements?

There is no relation between whether a slide is single-bore or dual-bore and the removability of its leadpipes. I believe that the Yamaha student and intermediate trombones (3530R, 352, 354, ...) all have fixed (soldered-in, not removable) leadpipes.

I suggest that you take your trombone to master technician John Sandhagen at the Boneyard in Claremont (only about 25 miles from Riverside) and let him take a look at it. He can not only tell you what you have, but he could also tweak the slide to make it close-to-perfect for a reasonable price.

[Trhtrbn]

My ysl-3530r is stamped on the bell section just above the locking nut, above the serial number. I would take a picture, but it is in the shop getting serviced, cleaned, and the dents removed. I will call John and pick his brain on this horn. The receiver is about 0.485 to 0.495, however, the slide is larger than the ysl-352 slide. They both use the same size locknut but the tubing that goes into the bell section in the .352 is definitely smaller than the one with the 3530r. This is why I am thinking it was customized. It makes me think if it is soldered I could probably go to a larger lead pipe later on down the road, I will ask John to check it out for me. For now I am not changing anything until I get more proficient with it the way it is. I really prefer the feel and sound of the 3530r, I prefer the rose bell, too. I will keep this horn for a longtime. Idk why, but I get a fuller and more focused sound with the 46B than I do with the Bach 7C or the 6-1/2AL, or the YAC48 or the 45A, maybe it has something to do with the dentures? Thanks again for your help.

[Trhtrbn]

Btw, when I ordered the ysl-3530r from eBay Japan, it was listed as a ysl-455g. When I contacted the seller they gave me a $150 rebate, so I paid $300 plus shipping for the ysl-3530r.

Hmm. The YSL-455G is a 0.525" single-bore trombone with an 8½" bell.
Are you sure that you have a legitimate 3530R? What (if anything) is engraved on the bell? What is the bell diameter?

By the way, the "bore" refers to the inside diameter of the inner slide tubes, not the "receiver" - which is the female socket on the bell section into which the slide tenon is inserted. There is no way that your bell receiver is 0.485" diameter. How have you taken your measurements?

There is no relation between whether a slide is single-bore or dual-bore and the removability of its leadpipes. I believe that the Yamaha student and intermediate trombones (3530R, 352, 354, ...) all have fixed (soldered-in, not removable) leadpipes.

I suggest that you take your trombone to master technician John Sandhagen at the Boneyard in Claremont (only about 25 miles from Riverside) and let him take a look at it. He can not only tell you what you have, but he could also tweak the slide to make it close-to-perfect for a reasonable price.

Btw, you seem to be knowledgeable about this stuff, do you know of a charity I could donate the ysl-352 trombone to? I do not think it is going to sell it for what I am looking to get out of it, about $300. I bought it for $125 plus shipping, but I have put $198 into cleaning, repairs, and dent removal.

[Posaunus]

Btw, you seem to be knowledgeable about this stuff, do you know of a charity I could donate the ysl-352 trombone to? I do not think it is going to sell it for what I am looking to get out of it, about $300. I bought it for $125 plus shipping, but I have put $198 into cleaning, repairs, and dent removal.

I have donated playable "student-level" trombones to the local middle school band teacher to pass on to needy and deserving kids who seem serious about music. The recipients are very grateful. There are also organizations who do this on a larger scale.

Make sure you include a suitable mouthpiece.

Good luck.

[Trhtrbn]

Btw, you seem to be knowledgeable about this stuff, do you know of a charity I could donate the ysl-352 trombone to? I do not think it is going to sell it for what I am looking to get out of it, about $300. I bought it for $125 plus shipping, but I have put $198 into cleaning, repairs, and dent removal.

I have donated playable "student-level" trombones to the local middle school band teacher to pass on to needy and deserving kids who seem serious about music. The recipients are very grateful. There are also organizations who do this on a larger scale.

Make sure you include a suitable mouthpiece.

Good luck.

Would you consider a YAC45A okay for a student? If not, 12C or equivalent?

[harrisonreed]

This is a weird thread, man. Just play the trombone

[BGuttman]

Would you consider a YAC45A okay for a student? If not, 12C or equivalent?

Please don't be so anal. Any mouthpiece that fits will be OK. Also, the Yamaha 45 is also marked 12C, so they are equivalent.

I like to start younger kids on a 12C equivalent just because they generally have smaller mouths, but once they get to Middle School (age 12) that isn't necessary. Anything from a 6.5AL up is OK. Also, don't go buying a boutique mouthpiece for this -- the kid won't appreciate it. An old Conn 3 or the like will be fine.

[Trhtrbn]

Btw, when I ordered the ysl-3530r from eBay Japan, it was listed as a ysl-455g. When I contacted the seller they gave me a $150 rebate, so I paid $300 plus shipping for the ysl-3530r.

Hmm. The YSL-455G is a 0.525" single-bore trombone with an 8½" bell.
Are you sure that you have a legitimate 3530R? What (if anything) is engraved on the bell? What is the bell diameter?

By the way, the "bore" refers to the inside diameter of the inner slide tubes, not the "receiver" - which is the female socket on the bell section into which the slide tenon is inserted. There is no way that your bell receiver is 0.485" diameter. How have you taken your measurements?

There is no relation between whether a slide is single-bore or dual-bore and the removability of its leadpipes. I believe that the Yamaha student and intermediate trombones (3530R, 352, 354, ...) all have fixed (soldered-in, not removable) leadpipes.

I suggest that you take your trombone to master technician John Sandhagen at the Boneyard in Claremont (only about 25 miles from Riverside) and let him take a look at it. He can not only tell you what you have, but he could also tweak the slide to make it close-to-perfect for a reasonable price.

I contacted John Sandhagen and he said there is no room for a larger leadpipe. He said they come with 0.500/0.525 slides and small receivers and that they are cool horns, have fun playing it. I guess the consensus is that I should shut up and play the horn, lol.

[Trhtrbn]

Hmm. The YSL-455G is a 0.525" single-bore trombone with an 8½" bell.
Are you sure that you have a legitimate 3530R? What (if anything) is engraved on the bell? What is the bell diameter?

By the way, the "bore" refers to the inside diameter of the inner slide tubes, not the "receiver" - which is the female socket on the bell section into which the slide tenon is inserted. There is no way that your bell receiver is 0.485" diameter. How have you taken your measurements?

There is no relation between whether a slide is single-bore or dual-bore and the removability of its leadpipes. I believe that the Yamaha student and intermediate trombones (3530R, 352, 354, ...) all have fixed (soldered-in, not removable) leadpipes.

I suggest that you take your trombone to master technician John Sandhagen at the Boneyard in Claremont (only about 25 miles from Riverside) and let him take a look at it. He can not only tell you what you have, but he could also tweak the slide to make it close-to-perfect for a reasonable price.

I contacted John Sandhagen and he said there is no room for a larger leadpipe. He said they come with 0.500/0.525 slides and small receivers and that they are cool horns, have fun playing it. I guess the consensus is that I should shut up and play the horn, lol.

John Sandhagen also said I should go with a small shank mouthpiece about a 5G, I got a SL-51C4.