Ideal front teeth ?

[patrickosmith]

I'm getting my front teeth (top) replaced and the dentist can design any shape / size teeth within reason!

Is there any advise you can think to give to guide their "tooth shape design" for a tenor trombone player with a Schilke 51 mouthpiece. My mouthpiece placement is approximately 2/3 upper and 1/3 lower. It looks like the inner rim spans the upper gums and the top teeth adjacent to my two center teeth. The rim doesn't extend to the canines.

It's not an easy thing to put into words. But here is my first cut.

Focusing on the four (4) center top teeth:

1) The arc and contour of each tooth should follow the arc and contour of the gum line
2) Two center top teeth should be somewhat rectangular in shape but can widen some toward the bottom
2) The surface of each tooth should be slightly convex (not flat, and certainly not concave) per item 1)
3) The space between the two top center teeth (and on either side of them) should have minimal gaps (within reason ... I still want as an aesthetically pleasing natural look)

Not sure what to say about tooth length?

[baileyman]

Some think that the key to Dave Steinmeyer's range is the gap between the front teeth, allowing airflow that would otherwise be cut off. I have not heard what results people have gotten from filing their gaps open. Yet.

[Doug Elliott]

Caps or implants?
If you don't have molds (or fancy digital scans) of your own teeth, my advice is to just let the dentist do his job. You can learn to play on the new structure just like anybody does on their own teeth.

But everybody has an opinion. Especially trumpet players.

I currently have a small gap that has developed between my top front 2 teeth. I have about 10 molds of my teeth, every few years going back a few decades, so I can see changes but they have been very minimal. Those front two used to touch but not now. I don't think it's changed anything in my playing.

[patrickosmith]

Caps or implants?
If you don't have molds (or fancy digital scans) of your own teeth, my advice is to just let the dentist do his job. You can learn to play on the new structure just like anybody does on their own teeth.

But everybody has an opinion. Especially trumpet players.

I currently have a small gap that has developed between my top front 2 teeth. I have about 10 molds of my teeth, every few years going back a few decades, so I can see changes but they have been very minimal. Those front two used to touch but not now. I don't think it's changed anything in my playing.

Hi Doug, Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated.

This process isn't just caps for a couple of teeth. It is caps of my entire uppers and almost all lowers. I've now been playing on the first round of "temps" for the past two years. I say "temps" in quotations because they are as good as a lot of "permanents" done by lesser dentistry. This dentist is truly world class. I'm not exaggerating. He completely restored Bill Jones's mouth (trumpeter, D.C. area) to his satisfaction. This dentist has a several "fancy digital scanning" machines and his own, onsite lab where he does "design to print" of "temps" in advance of super high quality permanents.

Yes, I can learn to play as best I can on whatever I have as you suggest. But the unusual opportunity here is that I can literally design the shape/surfaces of the top center 4 teeth. I'm now wearing the second round of temps. I go back in a week to give my inputs/desires/preferences to tweak the design. In this final stage they design/build permanents and send offsite for super high quality permanents.

One thing unexpected I noticed today (the first day after getting second round temps), is that the large flat surface behind the front teeth appears to enable clear attacks and refined legato tonguing. I'm definitely going to ask to retain that feature.

[Doug Elliott]

Is that Capital Center For Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery?

[Bach5G]

I’ve developed an underbite over the years and wonder if it causes a double buzz problem I have.

[timothy42b]

Years back there was a brass teacher in the Midwest whose book opined that teeth that aligned mostly wide and flat were better on mellow instruments, and people with mouths more like crocodiles better on bright instruments like trumpets and trombones. (a shallow arc vs a vee) I won't say more publically for reasons that became obvious last time I did.

[Bach5G]

“Years back there was a brass teacher in the Midwest whose book opined that teeth that aligned mostly wide and flat were better on mellow instruments, and people with mouths more like crocodiles better on bright instruments like trumpets and trombones. (a shallow arc vs a vee)…”

The Wedge mpc design was inspired by Jon Faddis’ dentition.

[Cmillar]

Remember, or know, the name Rich Matteson, late great North Texas State jazz teacher and euphonium virtuoso jazz player?

Had him for a master class/concert in Canada years ago, and questions came up; one came up about having 'a perfect embouchure'.

He just smiled for everyone....his teeth looked like he'd gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson. That was his answer!

Lots of trombone virtuosos have 'imperfect teeth', including Jim Pugh and countless other players in major symphony orchestras, jazz bands, etc.

Speaking from personal experience, common thinking at the time, was that I'd lose all my teeth playing Junior 'A' hockey. This was also right when I was getting into trombone lessons. But the crooked, overcrowded teeth never budged from numerous high sticks to the face. Had the wisdom teeth yanked at age 20 in order to prevent more crazy movement.

So, seeing Rich Matteson was affirming

Tip: get hold of Doug Elliott to set you up on what's right for your facial structure. Better late than never!

[harrisonreed]

Ask Lindberg for his gypsum teeth

[Wilktone]

My dissertation looked, in part, at certain dental characteristics to see if there was a pattern between teeth structure and shape and embouchure patterns. I didn't find any that ended up with statistical significance. While doing the review of the literature on that topic I did come across several hypothesis about how teeth are supposed to influence the embouchure, but none of them really tested their ideas with any sort of reliable methodology and since there are plenty of contrary examples to what is stated as "ideal," I would argue that they are probably wrong.

Tooth structure is important, for sure, but it's better for you to learn how to work with what you've got than to get your teeth adjust hoping that it will help. Make sure your dentist knows your embouchure concerns but I'd take their suggestions seriously when it comes to your dental health.

A couple of years ago I had to have crowns put on two of my front lower teeth. My dentist happens to be an amateur trumpet player, which helps since he understands my concerns. The first temporary crowns were quite close to my teeth before and I noticed no difference while playing. The permanents when on and there was definitely a difference and I was struggling to get my chops to return. There were some other issues with those crowns and they needed to come off and I got another set of temporary and then permanent crowns put on again. This time when the permanent crowns came back we took more time to get them shaped closer to the original teeth, but had to make some adjustments to them for my dental health. There was an adjustment period for me, but my chops came back just fine.

[heldenbone]

Many moons ago, trombonist Matty Shiner (and his trumpet playing brother?) in Pittsburgh advocated for a particular formation of the front teeth. I recall reading stories of students going so far as to use jeweler's files on their own teeth in pursuit of the ideal arch. Dave Wilken refers to all of this obliquely in his article

https://wilktone.com/?p=3107

--Richard